Batteries (and Chargers)

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minionhunter
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:36 pm

Batteries (and Chargers)

Post by minionhunter »

I'm trying to figure out what batteries to buy for building these Ants

I'm sorry these are such basic questions and are likely really dumb. I can't tell you all how much I appreciate your help with everything so far, I couldn't have made it without everyone who's replied. I was even stuck on posting and asking for help, but I figured I had watched everything I could on YT and couldn't figure it out, so I would ask for help. I'm happy to watch any videos or read anything you suggest if it will help.

I would greatly appreciate any help you can offer me here. I feel very overwhelmed by the subject and it is holding me back.

The questions I have (on batteries and chargers) are:
1. What characteristics am I looking for in 2S battery and 1S batteries? What is a typical good size and weight mAh and V to shoot for in each?
mAh, V, size, weight?
2. What connector types should I look for on the batteries?
3. What should I be looking for in a charger?
4. Anything (characteristics) to look for in a lipo bag? Or just get whatever and it will be fine, plus get a few disposables for accidental puctures and fire at an event?

Batteries:
From reading other threads it seems like I want to find the following (please correct me if I'm wrong)

Apparently Turnigy nanotech was the easy just buy it solution, but they stopped making them.

MySolderIsOlder said that "Giant Power 2S 120mAh LiPOs, which are only 11g." Is this something (the specs) that I should look for here in the US? About 120mAh and about 11g? How big are these?

I haven't found anything that light, but I've just looked on Amazon and quickly on HobbyKing US (less so here)

I've found these which are 2S, 7.6V, 300mAh, 17g (6 grams is a lot in an antweight, but it is the closest I've found so far, the mAh are double what MSIO said for his)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08DD ... WHUS&psc=1

I'll keep looking.

If a smaller bot (like part of a cluster) or like Alex needed for one of his bots was to get 2, 1S batteries and wire in parallel to fit into his bot.
What am I looking for in a 1S battery to power a smaller bot or to get it into a very slim (thin/not very tall) bot that uses two 1S batteries?

Connectors

I'm not sure what connectors are standard.
I'm assuming I was a plug to connect it to the bot and a plug to connect it to the charger so I don't have to take it out of the bot to charge it. But do you use the charging connector to connect it into the bot? I know some guys don't charge at the events they just bring a bunch of batteries in a lipo bag.

Chargers

I'm not sure what to look for here.

I broke down and just bought one that is recommended for FPV drones which is the main video tutorials I've been able to find on YT about batteries and chargers.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07DR ... UTF8&psc=1

It has an integrated power supply, is a dual chargers, can run of a big lipo, has bells and whistles, is expensive.
It didn't come with any leads so I'll have to buy some parallel charging boards I'm thinking.

That one is fine for this one, but I've got a bunch of kids and the scout troop so I'm going to need to find something else I can get that can charge multiple batteries at the same time and I don't spend $150 for each one.

Any suggestions are appreciated. There was a cheap hobby king one that I was going to buy a bunch of (that Alex had given me a file for laser cutting an acrylic holder to put four of them together), but that was a while ago and I don't know if it exists.

Then I have to figure out a powersupply. Someone suggested old x-box power supplies. I'll check ebay for them.

Thank you very much for your help. I really appreciate it.
Last edited by minionhunter on Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
minionhunter
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:36 pm

Re: Batteries (and Chargers)

Post by minionhunter »

Apparently I needed to read my build diary first. I have this reply from 2020 from MySolderIsOlder
I'm going to dissect it and see what I can fine.
I guess what I need most is a desirable weight
MySolderIsOlder wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:15 pm Personally I wouldn't risk buying cheap imported/unbranded LiPOs, even if they were shippable. Too much of a potential fire hazard.
AFAIK, Hobbyking are now only doing the 2S 180mah nano-tech (standard power pack inside a large proportion of UK ants) with a funny little 2-pin Molex 'E-Flite' (?) discharge plug and a 3-pin JST-PH balance charging plug. On the plus side they're very good batteries and currently dirt cheap (less than a dollar each).
As others have noted however, those plugs present challenges. One option, as Mark suggested is to replace the Molex with a standard JST-XH power plug (requires crimping). Personally I've taken to removing the discharge leads entirely and using just the balance plug for powering the robot as well as charging the LiPO (NB. when cutting LiPO leads, snip one wire first and seal the end with heat-shrink tubing, before snipping the other lead to a slightly different length, then seal that one too and tape the loose ends up to the battery). Might be a bad idea with a big 6S pack, where the dischange connectors and leads are heavier duty but with these little 2S packs, all the leads are the same thickness (24 AWG I think), so it's not a problem. I have now replaced the old JST-XH connectors in all my ants with 3-pin JST-PH sockets, using only the outer two pins. Saves almost a gram and is a lot easier to fit in where you have a cramped layout. Only downside is that you can't get in-line crimp housings for the male side of JST-PH connectors, only PCB headers - so I solder wires to the pins and add a dab of epoxy glue to stop them getting pushed out, then protect with heat-shrink.
As for the charging leads, etc, I crimp my own but you can also buy various ready-made adapter or extension leads then cut & splice these to make what you need. Might have to get creative - for example my charger won't work unless something is plugged into the discharge connector as well as the balance board, so I've had to make a couple of 'Y'-connector leads.
Involves some hassle - but given current prices on the 2S Nano-techs and limited other options for small 2S Lipos, worth the effort I think.
minionhunter
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:36 pm

Re: Batteries (and Chargers)

Post by minionhunter »

minionhunter wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:35 pm Apparently I needed to read my build diary first. I have this reply from 2020 from MySolderIsOlder
I'm going to dissect it and see what I can fine.
I guess what I need most is a desirable weight
MySolderIsOlder wrote: Thu Mar 19, 2020 4:15 pm Personally I wouldn't risk buying cheap imported/unbranded LiPOs, even if they were shippable. Too much of a potential fire hazard.
AFAIK, Hobbyking are now only doing the 2S 180mah nano-tech (standard power pack inside a large proportion of UK ants) with a funny little 2-pin Molex 'E-Flite' (?) discharge plug and a 3-pin JST-PH balance charging plug. On the plus side they're very good batteries and currently dirt cheap (less than a dollar each).
As others have noted however, those plugs present challenges. One option, as Mark suggested is to replace the Molex with a standard JST-XH power plug (requires crimping). Personally I've taken to removing the discharge leads entirely and using just the balance plug for powering the robot as well as charging the LiPO (NB. when cutting LiPO leads, snip one wire first and seal the end with heat-shrink tubing, before snipping the other lead to a slightly different length, then seal that one too and tape the loose ends up to the battery). Might be a bad idea with a big 6S pack, where the dischange connectors and leads are heavier duty but with these little 2S packs, all the leads are the same thickness (24 AWG I think), so it's not a problem. I have now replaced the old JST-XH connectors in all my ants with 3-pin JST-PH sockets, using only the outer two pins. Saves almost a gram and is a lot easier to fit in where you have a cramped layout. Only downside is that you can't get in-line crimp housings for the male side of JST-PH connectors, only PCB headers - so I solder wires to the pins and add a dab of epoxy glue to stop them getting pushed out, then protect with heat-shrink.
As for the charging leads, etc, I crimp my own but you can also buy various ready-made adapter or extension leads then cut & splice these to make what you need. Might have to get creative - for example my charger won't work unless something is plugged into the discharge connector as well as the balance board, so I've had to make a couple of 'Y'-connector leads.
Involves some hassle - but given current prices on the 2S Nano-techs and limited other options for small 2S Lipos, worth the effort I think.
I can't find anything like the described 180mAh battery on hobbyking, everything is 350+mAh that I can see that is a 2S.
minionhunter
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:36 pm

Re: Batteries (and Chargers)

Post by minionhunter »

Found the discontinued product
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-nan ... -5pcs.html

Google is bringing up some from random websites that are like $14-$16 a piece (180mAh, but not Turnigy)
Tufty
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:39 pm
Location: North Wales

Re: Batteries (and Chargers)

Post by Tufty »

minionhunter wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:55 pm Found the discontinued product
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-nan ... -5pcs.html

Google is bringing up some from random websites that are like $14-$16 a piece (180mAh, but not Turnigy)
Amazon UK has some 1S 150mah but they only seem to ship within the UK. Probably for safety reasons in case of fire. I'm sure there's an American equivalent somewhere though.
Current active ants: Scrooge McDerp | Ply-By-Wire (likely not to see competition) | Grinding Nemo | When Unicorns Go Rogue
minionhunter
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:36 pm

Re: Batteries (and Chargers)

Post by minionhunter »

If anyone has a good guide on batteries I would love to read one.

I spent a few hours yesterday reading and thinking about all this.

Fingertech has some nice batteries for small bots, all $9.75 USD
https://www.fingertechrobotics.com/prod ... d=G-2S-mAh

JST and balance connector on each pack.
2S, 180mAh, 45C Cont (8.1A), 90C Burst (16.2A), 20 x 35 x 13mm, 14g
2S, 120mAh, 45C Cont (5.4A), 90C Burst (10.8A), 19 x 25 x 15.5mm, 11g
and others that are higher

And I also found this website that will make batteries for you
https://www.lipobattery.us/narrow-li-po ... h-0-592wh/
The one at the link is only 1S but it is only 4g and tiny (only has bare wires so there needs to be a connector added).

Has anyone worked out what an ideal battery would be for UK Antweights to get it as small and light as possible?

I'm wondering if it might be worthwhile to see what it would cost to have some made to specifications. I'm going to need quite a few for the scout troupe and the ones from Fingertech are pretty expensive (but right what we seem to need).

I wonder if I ordered like 50 if the price could get significantly under what Fingertech sells them for.

I also wonder what the specs in a 1S battery for a clusterbot like wedge wedge wedge would be.
minionhunter
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:36 pm

Re: Batteries (and Chargers)

Post by minionhunter »

Tufty wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:25 am
minionhunter wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:55 pm Found the discontinued product
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-nan ... -5pcs.html

Google is bringing up some from random websites that are like $14-$16 a piece (180mAh, but not Turnigy)
Amazon UK has some 1S 150mah but they only seem to ship within the UK. Probably for safety reasons in case of fire. I'm sure there's an American equivalent somewhere though.
Thank you, I'll check it out.
Tufty
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:39 pm
Location: North Wales

Re: Batteries (and Chargers)

Post by Tufty »

minionhunter wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:12 pm
Tufty wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 2:25 am
minionhunter wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:55 pm Found the discontinued product
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-nan ... -5pcs.html

Google is bringing up some from random websites that are like $14-$16 a piece (180mAh, but not Turnigy)
Amazon UK has some 1S 150mah but they only seem to ship within the UK. Probably for safety reasons in case of fire. I'm sure there's an American equivalent somewhere though.
Thank you, I'll check it out.
For reference, my purchase: https://smile.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B ... UTF8&psc=1
Current active ants: Scrooge McDerp | Ply-By-Wire (likely not to see competition) | Grinding Nemo | When Unicorns Go Rogue
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