ESC with built-in receiver - interesting?

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minionhunter
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Re: ESC with built-in receiver - interesting?

Post by minionhunter »

peterwaller wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 9:14 am
It has two motor drive channels each of which can supply 4 amps so you could hang up to 3 standard motors on each channel up to 3 S or 12.6 volts. These channels are mixed which cannot be turned off and braking is on.
You save a couple of grams direct connecting it to the receiver but it is more the space saving and reliability improvements.
The servo output which is the 3rd channel has four pins the first three take a standard servo connector the 4th is the full battery voltage for high voltage servos when running on 2S. This is also useful for brushless controllers running either 2S or 3S batteries.
Here is the completed controller with the receiver board mounted and a 12 A Afro brushless controller added as well.
The whole module comes in at just under 10 gms.
Image
Peter that is awesome! You don't sell them do you? Lol!

minionhunter
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Re: ESC with built-in receiver - interesting?

Post by minionhunter »

Kyro wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:39 pm
my absolute requirements for an esc would be ability to take 2 motors per side, option to turn off/on mixing as i prefer to do my own via tx, but also have a pistol tx i give out if i have many visitors that has no inbuilt mixing.
small/light compared to an equivalent esc and rx combo.

if the esc would also incorporate an rx, flysky all the way with 2 extra channels (so it could be used for Mantis)

as for price, it costs me around £15 for an esc and rx which is currently my go to setup, but would be happy to spend a little more if i had the same reliability with a weight/size saving in an all in 1 setup.

layout wise, i would like either all wires exiting from 1 side, or motor wires on each back corner with battery wires on a front corner and (if rx incorporated) 2 sets of through holes to attach 2 extra accessories (possibly the option to add pins)

i think this would cover almost every option anyone would ever need (minus being flysky only compatible) with the current style of robots...
With how cheap and good the flysky transmitters are right now, I bet this pov will become more and more common...

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Team RobotMad
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Re: ESC with built-in receiver - interesting?

Post by Team RobotMad »

I present the RobotMad NanoESC V1

https://photos.app.goo.gl/tJGy3pjU7ofEwHRE6
Picture in a google album above

Two 2 AMP motor drive, would drive 4 wired in paralell.
3 extra outputs such as servos or external ESCs.
3.4v to 20v input. but only put what your motors can take.
Voltage monitor so no compleatly dead lipos from over discharge.
Any single wire reciver input, powerd from input voltage or 3.3v.
Built in button for changing modes and functions of the RM-NanoESC can aslo be used to put RX in bind mode.
All within 12 by 14mm for even the smallest of robot designs.

All required conections are though hole, but small holes so novice solderers may need help. may sell pre soldered packages if this is what people want.

Things like mixing and motor brake will be functions that can be turned on and off using the button same as changing the expected recever type if we can't get automatic detection to work. Other softwear fuctions may be possible on request, such as difrent mixing and weapon functions.

Some of you will know of my past robot controling board, wich we have never managed to kill one, this uses nearly the same components just minus the gyro and bluetooth, so i expect the same reliablity out of this board.

first batch will be for 20, i'll probably keep 5, if the other 15 sell quickly then more can be made. price TBC but expect around £20. hoping for the first lot to be ready by AWS61 but don't rely on it. Dont have to pay postage if collected from a ant event, we go to most but not all.

i will probably set up a simple website for selling them and possibly other things in the future (like the walking mechanisum :D ).

Questions? and are you intrested if so how many would you buy and what reciver would you use (exact models please).
Last edited by Team RobotMad on Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lincoln Barnes
Maker of "SmartAnts", and other autonomous projects.
Electronic enginering student at Nottingham Trent University.
https://robotmad.squarespace.com

MySolderIsOlder
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Re: ESC with built-in receiver - interesting?

Post by MySolderIsOlder »

May seem an obvious point but something that's often overlooked when discussing ESCs is a nice clean proportional response. I've found a number of the cheap Chinese ESCs (as well as some servo boards) are a bit 'all or nothing'; soon as you move the stick out of the dead band, the RMS voltage jumps straight up. In driving terms, you're either stationary or driving flat out.
I recently tested a commonly recommended 1.8A Dual ESC , using a servo tester and a DMM (connected across an N20 as I find some controllers test differently in the absence of any motor resistance) - don't remember the actual pulse timings now but it jumped straight up from 0v to 3.5v at around 1575 before then ramping up gradually to 7.2 at 2000ns. i.e. nothing between stationary and half speed but a bit more controllable after that. Because it's a jump, rather than just a steep curve section, it's not something you can resolve with exponential or D/R settings on the Tx.
I know this won't bother some people but personally I like the option of low-speed maneuverability when I need it (and a fast acceleration/deceleration when I don't).
Stuart (Anthony's dad)

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Re: ESC with built-in receiver - interesting?

Post by Team RobotMad »

MySolderIsOlder wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:18 pm
I've found a number of the cheap Chinese ESCs (as well as some servo boards) are a bit 'all or nothing'; soon as you move the stick out of the dead band, the RMS voltage jumps straight up. In driving terms, you're either stationary or driving flat out.
As i alredy use nealy the same set up as this NanoESC Board i can confirm it does not behave in this all or nothing way.
while i haven't directly tested how the RMS behaves across the range of PWM signal i could do so if you want more garente of it's behavour.

D/R and Expo could be another freature added into the softwear with the button to change modes, or set up a transmitter chanel to turn it on and off for transmiters that dont have D/R and Expo settings built in.
Lincoln Barnes
Maker of "SmartAnts", and other autonomous projects.
Electronic enginering student at Nottingham Trent University.
https://robotmad.squarespace.com

MySolderIsOlder
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Re: ESC with built-in receiver - interesting?

Post by MySolderIsOlder »

I'm always keen to test out new controllers so put me down for one when they're ready. I managed to get a little stock of Rx614N's when HobbyKing had them on half price so I'd be using the cPPM channel on that.
Personally I think fine tuning stuff like Expo and D/R is best done on the Tx but maybe that's because I use a DX6i. As a software developer I'm a great believer in the 'YAGNI' principle. Start simple and only add functionality when the users start demanding (and are willing to pay for) it.

If you do add bells and whistles and extra options, good to have a plug-n-drive default mode (and a simple factory-reset that gets you back to with minimal reading of the documentation).
Stuart (Anthony's dad)

minionhunter
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 5:36 pm

Re: ESC with built-in receiver - interesting?

Post by minionhunter »

Team RobotMad wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:46 pm
I present the RobotMad NanoESC V1

https://photos.app.goo.gl/tJGy3pjU7ofEwHRE6
Picture in a google album above

Two 2 AMP motor drive, would drive 4 wired in paralell.
3 extra outputs such as servos or external ESCs.
3.4v to 20v input. but only put what your motors can take.
Voltage monitor so no compleatly dead lipos from over discharge.
Any single wire reciver input, powerd from input voltage or 3.3v.
Built in button for changing modes and functions of the RM-NanoESC can aslo be used to put RX in bind mode.
All within 12 by 14mm for even the smallest of robot designs.

All required conections are though hole, but small holes so novice solderers may need help. may sell pre soldered packages if this is what people want.

Things like mixing and motor brake will be functions that can be turned on and off using the button same as changing the expected recever type if we can't get automatic detection to work. Other softwear fuctions may be possible on request, such as difrent mixing and weapon functions.

Some of you will know of my past robot controling board, wich we have never managed to kill one, this uses nearly the same components just minus the gyro and bluetooth, so i expect the same reliablity out of this board.

first batch will be for 20, i'll probably keep 5, if the other 15 sell quickly then more can be made. price TBC but expect around £20. hoping for the first lot to be ready by AWS61 but don't rely on it. Dont have to pay postage if collected from a ant event, we go to most but not all.

i will probably set up a simple website for selling them and possibly other things in the future (like the walking mechanisum :D ).

Questions? and are you intrested if so how many would you buy and what reciver would you use (exact models please).
I'm interested, if you can ship to the US. I have some simplistic questions I'll post later when I get time to summarize my thoughts. But yeah I'm interested.

Definitely want one to play with, mark me down for one. Maybe more of them if you haven't sold them all.

If they do everything I want I'll have to work out a deal with you for a lot of them.
Last edited by minionhunter on Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

minionhunter
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Re: ESC with built-in receiver - interesting?

Post by minionhunter »

MySolderIsOlder wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:18 pm
May seem an obvious point but something that's often overlooked when discussing ESCs is a nice clean proportional response. I've found a number of the cheap Chinese ESCs (as well as some servo boards) are a bit 'all or nothing'; soon as you move the stick out of the dead band, the RMS voltage jumps straight up. In driving terms, you're either stationary or driving flat out.
I recently tested a commonly recommended 1.8A Dual ESC , using a servo tester and a DMM (connected across an N20 as I find some controllers test differently in the absence of any motor resistance) - don't remember the actual pulse timings now but it jumped straight up from 0v to 3.5v at around 1575 before then ramping up gradually to 7.2 at 2000ns. i.e. nothing between stationary and half speed but a bit more controllable after that. Because it's a jump, rather than just a steep curve section, it's not something you can resolve with exponential or D/R settings on the Tx.
I know this won't bother some people but personally I like the option of low-speed maneuverability when I need it (and a fast acceleration/deceleration when I don't).
I agree with you on that. I've finally tracked down the "slow speed" driving to instant high speed driving to aws 49 about 4:40 if I recall correctly. The white 6WD bot looks like he's driving in slow motion then instantly fast motion when he wanted to. He also seemingly does 180 degree turns on the money each time like with a switch to do exactly that. I'm guessing this would be possible with gradual increased steps in the timings and putting in more steps. I think Rory said he did this with his Nanos at one point in time.

minionhunter
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Re: ESC with built-in receiver - interesting?

Post by minionhunter »

MarkR wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:42 pm
I've been trying to develop a ESC with built-in receiver. (Or is it a receiver with built-in ESC?)

If I could build something like this, would anyone be interested? In particular, would you pay money to buy one or two?

* Radio protocol - AFHDS2A - compatible with the popular FS-i6 transmitter and some others
* ESC: 3 channels brushed, 1.5A max (I will need to check that) - suitable for driving 1 N20 motor (any spec) or 2 less powerful ones, maybe
* Battery: 1-2S lipo, approx 3.6V to 8.4V
* Bonus: (possibly) one channel servo output in addition to 3
* SIZE: about 20x30 mm ; thickness - more than I'd like, about 8mm because of a huge crystal on the radio module.
* Weight: will be around 4g without wires

I think this makes it quite useful for Ants, perhaps Fleas too.

I will open source the design, firmware and BOM, but it is likely that it will be tricky to assemble by hand. If enough people are interested I can try to get them made in China and sell on Tindie, Etsy or something.
What do people do if they have 6WD? Like real 6WD with 6 motors. I'm mean for the speed controller and I'm thinking about that white 6WD bot at AWS 49 that could go from driving in Super slow-mo to lightning quick instantly. Could you do that with yours or will it pull too many amps to have 3 N20 or 3 N10 motors on one channel? Is there a way to do that in an esc like this?

I apologize for the simplistic questions, I'm reading a ton right now and typing up a list of what I think I would want in a "perfect antweight esc" plus questions. I'm basing it on your antenna on the chip esc (band using a lot of what Rory has mentioned in his threads and OP in the thread. Plus a lot of Kryo's thoughts and a few others. I'll try to post it today.

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Re: ESC with built-in receiver - interesting?

Post by Team RobotMad »

minionhunter wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:37 pm
Could you do that with yours or will it pull too many amps to have 3 N20 or 3 N10 motors on one channel? Is there a way to do that in an esc like this?
I don't know exactly how much current n20s take most of the time add in that there are high and low power ones of varying quality. i'd say that if you got 3 that took a prety low amount compared to an avarge n20 then 2 Amps may be enough to power 3 per channel. i've never tried n10's so have no experience to answer for them.
You could add a extra external ESC to power the 3rd set of motors using servo outputs of the main controler to control it. Would probably take a lot of fine tuning to get that to run nicely though.
minionhunter wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:36 pm
I'm interested, if you can ship to the US.
I think i will be able to ship to the US for about £11 in shipping costs. the design is currenly changing slighly, to add up to 4 servo outputs sacraficing the reciver pins being in a location that matched the tiny orange reviver.
Lincoln Barnes
Maker of "SmartAnts", and other autonomous projects.
Electronic enginering student at Nottingham Trent University.
https://robotmad.squarespace.com

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