AWS 48, Basingstoke, 21st November 2015

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Remote-Controlled Dave
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Re: AWS 48, Basingstoke, 21st November 2015

Post by Remote-Controlled Dave » Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:30 pm

I think you're right Joey. Its not criticism as such, I just don't think its a better way than the current system. But I do have a slight worry about sending events even further out of the reach of being hosted by the "average Joe". Will's great uni based events already put a lot of people off hosting because they were so technical. We're now at a stage where AntLog pretty much HAS to be used, and now we're even doing the bits that CAN be done using the simple ways with needless technology. I thought getting Dan to run an AWS might encourage others - a smaller venue, less technology, with a dude at the helm who we all like and will support despite those limitations, but it seems to be being taken over a bit.

But I'll just be quiet about it. I'm clearly just expressing thoughts only I'm having, both in this thread and others. I have a solution for that.
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Re: AWS 48, Basingstoke, 21st November 2015

Post by peterwaller » Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:28 am

Dave I can't understand why in a hobby based on technology like robotics you object to one program designed to make competition organisation easier and much faster.
With the growing size of entries it is becoming more and more important to reduce the time and effort involved in running them.
These competitions would not be possible to organize without the internet and this forum both of which involve technology.
The radio gear and controllers all involve complex micro processors which we all use even if we don't understand how they work.
These technologies are continuously evolving enabling smaller lighter and often better robots hence fleas and nanos.
I spent a lot of time producing the double elimination charts but am more than happy that a better and slicker way of running our competitions has been designed by Gary.
Just as I am happy that Rory has come up with smaller lighter and cheaper controllers to replace the older ones I use to make.
Life is about progress and our hobby needs to move forward or risk stagnating or worse.
I am not trying to have a go at you even though we seem to approach the same hobby from different directions.
How about a compromise you give Antlog a chance to prove itself to be as good as I think it will be and I will not only buy but use some gaffa tape.

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Re: AWS 48, Basingstoke, 21st November 2015

Post by Remote-Controlled Dave » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:00 am

As I have already stated (many times!) I am not against Antlog! I am against using technology for the sake of it when it doesn't improve on anything. Antlog is wonderful for doing the draw, keeping track, etc etc, (although I still don't think we've had a full event where it hasn't gone wrong in some way). But this new sign in bit doesn't make any sense for us. The events are bigger than they used to be but we're hardly some massive enterprise that needs to upgrade or risk doom.

And on the note of advancing technology, well therein lies the problem. There's very little challenge anymore! Everyone's robots run on the same set of parts because Rory has produced something specific that can't really be improved. 3D printing means you don't even have to "build" anything anymore. And without surrendering to such technologies its becoming increasingly difficult to compete, as seen by the same people making the top at all previous events. I tried to suggest a format change on the other thread to inject a bit of life back into it but no one was interested. You say you don't want the hobby to become stagnant, I feel it already has. I'm throwing together robots in an hour or two without caring because I don't see the point in trying.

And that's why I think this is going to be my last AWS for a while. Been thinking about it a lot and you're right Peter, there's no point being part of it if I'm not interested in the way its going. It costs us an awful lot of money and time to get to events and that can be used elsewhere. I'm getting parts together for a new heavyweight, so not leaving robot combat, just defecting to a branch that seems more me at the moment. The great results for robots like Nuts and Gabriel at this year's heavyweight champs showed me that you're not necessarily at a disadvantage just because you're low tech. So next year I'm doing that instead. Hopefully I'll find a way to enjoy my hobby again rather than it feeling like a bit of a chore.

If I didn't enjoy the company at the antweight events so much I think I'd have already quit to be honest. But I'll see a lot of you at some of the heavy events anyway.
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Re: AWS 48, Basingstoke, 21st November 2015

Post by peterwaller » Mon Nov 16, 2015 2:25 pm

That's a shame we will miss you and Gemma.

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Re: AWS 48, Basingstoke, 21st November 2015

Post by Lincoln » Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:13 pm

Remote-Controlled Dave wrote:Everyone's robots run on the same set of parts because Rory has produced something specific that can't really be improved. 3D printing means you don't even have to "build" anything anymore. And without surrendering to such technologies its becoming increasingly difficult to compete, as seen by the same people making the top at all previous events.

I'm throwing together robots in an hour or two without caring because I don't see the point in trying.
1 not everyone
we build are own circuits and we have made the top 16 a lot now

2 there is your problem you don't enjoy it anymore because you don't care or try witch seams a bit odd for the person that spends the most mony to get to events

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Re: AWS 48, Basingstoke, 21st November 2015

Post by razerdave » Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:23 pm

I'm pretty much in agreement with Dave on that quoted bit above.

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Re: AWS 48, Basingstoke, 21st November 2015

Post by Hogi » Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:41 pm

i'm sorry you are no longer enjoying it Dave and we will miss you and Gemma a lot. i hope you find more enjoyment in heavyweights but remember you'll always have friends here in the ant community. i hope to put on a good AWS on saturday so you can leave antweights with happy memories of your last event and maybe some day return. :)
Daniel Jackson.

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Many antweights

Super antweights: territorial.

Fleaweights: fleadom fighter, gaztons.

Featherweights: hectic (under construction)

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Re: AWS 48, Basingstoke, 21st November 2015

Post by Rapidrory » Mon Nov 16, 2015 5:51 pm

TBH, I also agree with Dave L to an extent. AWSs have become one of the most formal and competitive events in UK robot combat aside perhaps the featherweight championships. I feel this is largely due to the steadily increased popularity requiring events to be run at an ever more professional level. I mean don't get me wrong, we've got churning through fights down to a tee; we can get through 100+ robots with double elimination fights in ~5-6 hours, where as the beetle champs have had to resort to 4 way melees to get through a 32 robot tournament in the same time span, and this is great because it mean everyone gets a fair go... However it does mean you loose a bit of the relaxed atmosphere, and the pressure of having a strict schedule starts to make what should be a far from serious sport of fighting tiny robots become suddenly a whole lot more daunting.

Although I do agree to some extent that my kits are upping the bar of the tech level, I'm not sure that's the real problem. I do featherweight and heavyweight events with robots cobbled together from scrap; I don't expect for a second that I'd win, but still have an absolute blast doing it. The tech of the highest level robots is always going to be out of the reach of most people, it's true for every weight class. That's why they're the highest level robots; it's largely an engineering sport after all.

The problem I think is that due to the increasingly formal atmosphere of the events, there's less fun to be had with thrown together bots. Unfortunately I think as more people join, it's only going to have to get increasingly more formal to get through all the fights in a day. The small events are much more the classic laid back events with time to relax and have fun, however as Dave's said before, he can't make these. As an engineering student, I personally have no problem with this as I can usually get robots in to the top 16 relatively well, and have great fun doing so. It just means these big events are less fun for more casual roboteers than they perhaps used to be.

I kind of agree that some of the heavier weight classes are now more your style Dave.. I'm also kind of looking forward to fighting Nuts against whatever crazy machine you come up with :P
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Re: AWS 48, Basingstoke, 21st November 2015

Post by Remote-Controlled Dave » Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:44 pm

I dont want to take away this topic from its purpose, which is the AWS, which I am still coming to and hope to thoroughly enjoy.

However, I've had so much bad luck recently. Blown speedos, dead batteries, mysterious gremlins in previously-working machines...basically I've had to hastily rebuild my team today and there's still one to be built tomorrow. They are all thoroughly awful. I wish I could use this as an opportunity to prove that low quality robots can progress through the brackets, but I think we'll both be out very early. No matter, means I can relax and chat to you all instead.
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Re: AWS 48, Basingstoke, 21st November 2015

Post by Rapidrory » Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:49 pm

Remote-Controlled Dave wrote: However, I've had so much bad luck recently. Blown speedos, dead batteries, mysterious gremlins in previously-working machines...basically I've had to hastily rebuild my team today and there's still one to be built tomorrow.
And you wonder why people run my kits these days.. :roll: I kid :L Looking forward to seeing everyone this Saturday :)
Rory Mangles - Team Nuts

Robots: Nuts 2 and many more...

NanoTwo Motor Controllers: https://nutsandbots.co.uk/product/nanotwodualesc

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