AWS 48, Basingstoke, 21st November 2015

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BeligerAnt
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Re: AWS 48, Basingstoke, 21st November 2015

Post by BeligerAnt » Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:43 pm

Also, can everyone that's coming please sign up at antlog.garya.org.uk

First create a team, then create your robots, then enter them into the AWS48 event.

This will massively speed up the start of the event and give us much more time for robo-combat fun rather than IT stress!

For more details on AntLog, see the Wiki at https://github.com/GaryA/antlog/wiki

Bring your smartphone/tablet/laptop to track your progress throughout the event without pestering the organisers! :)
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Re: AWS 48, Basingstoke, 21st November 2015

Post by Remote-Controlled Dave » Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:38 pm

I noticed when I was signing up on Antlog that it's only the ants that you sign in for the AWS. It allowed me to add my nano too but cleared it off again when I realised it just said antweights. I can see others doing the same!

I'm not really sure that this will make things less confusing on the day! I think it's much easier to just tick people on a list as the robots are confirmed then take a few minutes typing it up into antlog. If anything, this new way promotes confusion.
"Did you sign up before the event? Was it just on the forum or on Antlog too? Did you sign up your none Antweight enteries into the draw? Have any of them dropped out? Have any of them changed? Has so-and-so shown up? Has he/she been added in? Have you only registered a maximum of 4? Does your fourth entry follow the rules of the 4th?" Etc etc.

As a well seasoned event organiser, it sounds like a right headache to me. I'd much rather just check off robots as tech check is done, then input them manually. Plus there are a lot of people coming who don't really use the forum and won't necessarily see posts about Antlog. If you have to chase them up on the day anyway, then why not just do the usual system?

But good luck to ya. Prove me wrong.
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Re: AWS 48, Basingstoke, 21st November 2015

Post by peterwaller » Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:51 pm

I have signed up my Ants, Fleas and Nanos is that wrong Gary.
The only problem I had was it remembered my team name team termite and my password but actually required my user name and password to log in.

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Re: AWS 48, Basingstoke, 21st November 2015

Post by BeligerAnt » Sat Nov 14, 2015 5:18 pm

Dave, the intent is that it is actually a *lot* simpler and quicker than a paper system.
Currently the online signup on RW101 provides no useful input to Antlog whatsoever.
If people don't sign up online we are no worse off and just enter the teams and robots on the day. It's actually easier than the old Antlog as you only have to enter the team once.
Once a robot exists in the database it can be signed up for an event in a few clicks.
Entries by team members have to be confirmed by the event organiser on the day (at tech check), where 4-entry (or any other) rule can be imposed. No-shows can be deleted, and have to be before the draw can be done.

With respect, I have run more events than I care to remember and have put a huge amount of effort into creating a system that will make life easier for event organisers. It's just a shame that almost no-one has seen fit to help in any way despite my making the project open source and repeatedly asking for volunteers for testing.

For anyone that is interested, I will have a full installation of everything needed to run Antlog available on a memory stick at the AWS complete with a database full of teams and robots for testing.

Antlog supports ants, fleas and nanos and competitions for each class. Dan has decided to leave the FWS and nano competitions out of Antlog for now as they may not run double elimination (quite common even with previous versions of Antlog).
Antlog can support other event formats such as single elimination with a little more work (maybe after the AWS), although formats that involve anything other than one-on-one fights would require significantly more work.

Peter, I'm not sure I understand your problem. Feel free to email me some screenshots. If you tick the "Remember me" box on the login form and don't log out when you leave the site you will be logged in automatically when you return.
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Re: AWS 48, Basingstoke, 21st November 2015

Post by Remote-Controlled Dave » Sat Nov 14, 2015 7:15 pm

I'm not criticing your efforts, Gary, and I understand the intent fine. I have zero computing know how so how can I help? The one time I tried to download it it wouldn't work, so I couldn't help beta test either. Of course it's quicker than a paper system, that isn't what I said. I said I don't see the point in this new bit. It seemingly saves only the time it takes to type the names in whilst causing a lot of possible confusion in other areas. The "intent" is that everyone signs in in advance so that on the day you can just hit go for the draw to happen and jump straight in. But, in the real world, it just creates another avenue that has to be checked to ensure that the data is correct before the draw is made. Why not just type the names in?
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Re: AWS 48, Basingstoke, 21st November 2015

Post by BeligerAnt » Sat Nov 14, 2015 9:50 pm

The point of beta testing is to find bugs and *report* them. If you had told me you couldn't get it to work I could have worked with you to make the installation work. It took several attempts to get a painless install "in the wild" - ask Joey!

The point of the new signup is that teams can manage their own robots - it doesn't all fall to the EO.
Teams can create robots, "retire" those that are no longer active, even bring retired robots back into active service.
Teams can also sign robots up to events and freely add or delete robots whilst registration is open. Online registration effectively closes when the EO downloads the database to a local machine prior to the event. Teams may still add or delete robots and entries at the event venue.
Since Antlog is a web application multiple users can access the database at once, meaning that signups do not interfere with tech checks.
Every entry has to be confirmed by the EO (tech check is the obvious time) and any no-shows deleted.
If teams manage their own entries the EO only has to confirm each one at tech check.

Most importantly, since the same database is used for each event, over time the majority of teams and robots will already exist in the database. Hence entering an event and confirming the entry on the day is just a matter of a few clicks.

The real test will be next Saturday, and I'm really hoping for some useful feedback. I know some aspects of the user interface aren't great but it's much easier to ask for criticism of something that exists than to ask for suggestions from "cold".

Hopefully there will be time on Saturday for me to show interested people how to run an event with Antlog.
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Re: AWS 48, Basingstoke, 21st November 2015

Post by Remote-Controlled Dave » Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:29 pm

But all of those "benefits" were already in the previous system. What's the difference between me managing an online account and selecting 4 robots to sign up and me choosing 4 robots to sign up via the usual way on this forum? It "only takes a few clicks" either way. The only difference is the EO doesn't have to type the names in on the day, but that is only reliant on everyone keeping their online database up to date in the first place. "It doesn't all fall to the EO". Well, forgive me, but is that not the POINT of being the EO? I cant think of anything worse than if I'm an event organiser and a lot of the responsibilities are spread among a vast number of other people rather than just myself! That's much harder to keep track of than a simple set of your own notes.
Its trying to get everyone to break habits which have worked for ages for a new system that doesn't feature any benefits.
"All the EO has to do is confirm each entry (tech check is the obvious time)". How is that any different from the usual way? I make a list of all signed up and then I confirm/edit/delete the entries at tech check. There isn't any difference.
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Re: AWS 48, Basingstoke, 21st November 2015

Post by Hogi » Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:54 am

don't worry about it guys everything will be fine. last time we just added the robots to antlog upon tech checking and if i'm not mistaken it will possible to do the same this time if there are any extras/drop outs. i'm sure the new antlog will work fine, after all Gary has put a lot of work into making it.
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Fleaweights: fleadom fighter, gaztons.

Featherweights: hectic (under construction)

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Re: AWS 48, Basingstoke, 21st November 2015

Post by peterwaller » Sun Nov 15, 2015 9:38 am

Its all OK now Gary it was just the first time I re-logged my team name and password were automatically inserted thinking about it possible by Chrome and antlog needed my username and password. As you say once I logged in correctly and ticked remember me it all works fine.
I think the new system is much easier to work not only on the day but the sign up for events.
The ability for individuals to update their team and robot data means the database can be kept up to date.

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Re: AWS 48, Basingstoke, 21st November 2015

Post by joey_picus » Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:26 pm

BeligerAnt wrote:If you had told me you couldn't get it to work I could have worked with you to make the installation work. It took several attempts to get a painless install "in the wild" - ask Joey!
I still have screenshots of AntLog refusing to do the draw because a single progress bar was misbehaving :) I think it's a far better system than currently though. I suspect a lot of Dave's criticisms are coming from the point of view of someone who's run many events and has their own system, and one of the massive benefits of AntLog 3 is that it makes it a lot easier for anyone to handle the admin side of an event with minimal fuss and experience. There's a lot of other benefits too like being able to preview fights without being told to go away from the computer in robust terms, and having the active fight displayed onscreen on a stream, and I think overall it's a far better system than what we've had before. (now we just need to get Gary and Pete C drunk and get it better integrated with RW101 for ultimate efficiency...)

ACTUAL ROBOT NEWS: I'm having some problems getting some titanium cut for SDF II and Jigsaw 64; I *think* it'll all be sorted in time, and they'll be fighting regardless, even if I have to bodge something out of old cereal boxes and silly string. As Dan says, everything will be fine, even when it usually isn't :)
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