Proposed rule changes 2015

A discussion forum for proposed changes to the AWS rules (2014)

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razerdave
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Re: Proposed rule changes 2015

Post by razerdave » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:59 pm

1: yes
2: yes
3: B

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Re: Proposed rule changes 2015

Post by Remote-Controlled Dave » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:37 pm

Seen as though the reason for debating the cluster rule is because of the explosion in nano technology, and that that wasn't around as it is now a year ago, that's the reason for the change. A year is a long time in technology advancements nowadays!

Also, how can you say a saving of 10mins isn't significant in a sport where most battles last under a minute? 10mins is a huge amount of time to save from fight time!

Like I said, on Saturday, a number of fights went the distance. The decisions were all very easy for the judges and very quick to make, but would not have been different whether judged at 2mins instead of 3. So why let it go to 3, and then add on judging time? Your arguments make very little sense to me there Gary!
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Re: Proposed rule changes 2015

Post by BeligerAnt » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:13 pm

But the situation hasn't really changed in the last year, although it seems people's opinions have!
At that time it was hexbugs and little toy cars (and AlsoRan). It has also been quite easy to build fleas since 2.4GHz and LiPos became commonplace, leading to a significant number of "clusters". The only difference that the advent of nanos has made is the introduction of Lemmings.
Yet I got a load of flak from people who seemed to think it was their right to be able to enter 4 robots without having to build a walker.
No-one has ever suggested banning clusters. They can still be entered as part of a team - heck one could even enter 3 rollers and a walking cluster! :) I'm just glad that now it seems everyone agrees with me, but I still seem to be getting flak...

Is 10 minutes really a significant amount of time to save in a 6 hour event? I don't think so.

More importantly, are event organisers willing to ensure that judges are appointed and willing to make decisions, and are all entrants really willing to accept judges decisions as final with good grace?
It's not as if we have never had any problems in this area.
I'm just not sure that the marginal time saving stacks up against the organisational difficulties of more formal judging. Beware of unintended consequences!

If the only fights that exceed 2 minutes are the ones that go to 3 minutes then there is no extra overhead in judging and there may be a small time saving. However, if there are fights that fall within the 2 to 3 minute range there will be more judging to be done, the time saving will be eroded by judging time and the organisation will become more difficult.
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Re: Proposed rule changes 2015

Post by Shakey » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:19 pm

BeligerAnt wrote:Is 10 minutes really a significant amount of time to save in a 6 hour event? I don't think so.
That's still an extra 5+ robots on a low estimate that can then be accommodate by the event.

BeligerAnt wrote:More importantly, are event organisers willing to ensure that judges are appointed and willing to make decisions, and are all entrants really willing to accept judges decisions as final with good grace?
It's not as if we have never had any problems in this area.
I'm just not sure that the marginal time saving stacks up against the organisational difficulties of more formal judging. Beware of unintended consequences!
From my experience nearly all competitors respect judges decisions, even if they don't accept it.
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Re: Proposed rule changes 2015

Post by razerdave » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:30 pm

I guess the toy cars and such have been replaced with Nano's, but at least they're proper robots still, and can actually contribute to a fight (Slice to meet you's partner not included :P )

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Re: Proposed rule changes 2015

Post by Remote-Controlled Dave » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:35 pm

Totally don't agree that "the only significant change nanos have brought in is Lemmings". Half the clusters at the last event were just ants with 20g spare and a nano chucked in to qualify as a 4th. Rory even admitted that he was rather lazy doing that instead of fixing his walker, and when I tech checked Alex and Rory they were both able to choose which of their ants was going to cluster with a nano because they were all pretty light anyway. That wasn't happening a year ago.
I think people should be allowed their fourth when they go through an effort to qualify for it. That effort is no longer there with clusterbots. That's the change.
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Re: Proposed rule changes 2015

Post by Shakey » Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:38 pm

razerdave wrote:I guess the toy cars and such have been replaced with Nano's, but at least they're proper robots still, and can actually contribute to a fight (Slice to meet you's partner not included :P )
Awww.....
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Re: Proposed rule changes 2015

Post by Remote-Controlled Dave » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:10 am

I'd like to hear from a few more people who built specific clusters - Dan, Rhys, Alasdair, Andy...I know Dan wants to build a walker anyway and Andy has Kwejiboom to revert back to. Rhys is, well, rather busy with life at the moment! And Alasdair is a forum ghost.
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Re: Proposed rule changes 2015

Post by AntRoboteer » Fri Jul 10, 2015 9:42 am

Right, just my votes here:

A) Yes, that's a real step in the right direction.
B) No way. I don't like the sound of limiting fights any more. Sometimes a good robot can pull a victory out of the bag later on in the match (I have been known to do so myself) even though the robot does not look particularly aesthetically pleasing or does not appear to be aggressive (perhaps due to low motor speed or other factors) and reducing the time available would limit opportunities to do so.
C) B sounds lovely to me. It would limit gigantic powerful robot and nano clusters for sure which will only be an improvement but also allow us builders who prefer to make a cluster as our fourth entry happy as well. Perfect! :-)

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Re: Proposed rule changes 2015

Post by peterwaller » Fri Jul 10, 2015 10:21 am

I just posted this on the events page where some discussion of this was going on then noticed this and decided it was a better place to put it.
Is it just me or are people becoming more intolerant.
There seems to be more and more posts aimed at banning certain types of robot small toys, ducted fans and now clusters of dissimilar size.
Just because we don't like something if feel it is not within the spirit of the rules doesn't mean other people do.
I could argue that ducted fans can be beaten or that alsoran has on several occasions influenced the outcome of a fight but I just think unless there is some great compelling reason why a particular robot configuration completely dominates the whole AWS scene we should stop all these witch hunts (perhaps a little strong :wink: ) and just start enjoying the wide range of approaches and views people have.

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