AWS 40

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joey_picus
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Re: AWS 40

Post by joey_picus »

Having the FWS start earlier is an excellent idea, as is having two arenas - I've had some sleep now...:)
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BeligerAnt
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Re: AWS 40

Post by BeligerAnt »

We have tried two arenas in the past, and it really doesn't work. It's far too distracting having two fights running concurrently in close proximity. Equally I can't see running two arenas some distance apart being particularly popular or practical.

Whilst I like the sentiment of maximising the number of different teams in the final stages, I don't think there's a sensible way of doing it. If the winner of a group is "disqualified" how do we decide who goes through instead? This can only take longer and require more fights. The only fair way to ensure more different teams in the final stages is to limit the number of entries per team to one or maybe two robots, but I can't see that being particularly popular either... It would reduce the size of the competition significantly though :wink:

Improving the visibility of upcoming fights and where each robot stands is something I feel we can really improve upon. In the past I have used names stuck to a wall and moved around as the fights progress. It worked OK (ish) but needs an accessible wall close to where the fights are being organised. It's also quite a lot of shuffling...
Whiteboards are not really practical - too much writing!
A successor to AntLog with improved visibility that could be put on a big screen or projector would be the best solution, but it would be a lot of work (not just some changes to AntLog). Any volunteers for a group project?
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StuartL
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Re: AWS 40

Post by StuartL »

How about allocating points based upon how quickly you win a bout in a league-style scoring system? That way it becomes more entertaining for spectators, the matches are positively encouraged to be shorter and you don't (necessarily) get penalised for that one "unlucky" drive-out over the drop-off. Once you've run enough bouts to get a top-16 (maybe everyone has competed at least thrice?) you can drop to a knockout or double-knockout.

Thoughts?
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Re: AWS 40

Post by Remote-Controlled Dave »

The two arena solution worked absolutely fine at Craig's last AWS. In fact, it went without a hitch and received much praise so I don't understand where the "it really doesn't work" comment came from. You don't need to battle simultaneously anyway, you set one battle going then get the next two to get set in the second arena. As one battle ends, the next begins. Easy and efficient.
I don't think the actual format needs to change or anything, its not like we overrun by a long time or didn't get finished!
How about a single elimination FWS and a double elimination AWS? That would speed it up considerably and I'm not sure any fleaweight builders would complain. Or just start the FWS sooner as suggested. "If you want to enter the fleas, be here earlier" kinda thing.
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Re: AWS 40

Post by joey_picus »

The actual format isn't really the issue, and with the AWS the numbers involved are so large that a league-type solution would probably result in more battles rather than fewer. I do agree with Dave that having two arenas seemed to work well with Craig - cutting out the removal/arena cleanup/setup time in between battles does seem to add up a lot over the course of the tournament, although running the actual battles simultaneously would prove too confusing.
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Re: AWS 40

Post by StuartL »

With two arenas in the same auditorium you wouldn't really need to worry about FWS and AWS as separate events, you could just schedule battles on each and (as has been suggested) alternate the battles so that prep/clear-up is occurring in one arena while battle is occurring in the other.

What I think is more significant in the scheduling is avoiding driver/team conflicts. Several times yesterday I observed the same driver complete one battle and dart out of the arena to the pits to prep/collect his robot for the next battle.

There's three things which I think could be useful for next time:

1) A clear running order, perhaps a screen showing the next 'x' battles so drivers and teams can be ready for their battles.

2) Where possible ensuring a minimum of one battle 'break' between the same driver competing.

3) Encouraging drivers to spectate only if their next robot is already in the auditorium ready to be placed in the arena.
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Re: AWS 40

Post by StuartL »

Joey wrote:(...) with the AWS the numbers involved are so large that a league-type solution would probably result in more battles rather than fewer (...)
Do we have stats from yesterday regarding the number of bouts each robot competed in? If they're averaging more than three or four before the finals then a league would be more efficient :)
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Re: AWS 40

Post by Andrew_Hibberd »

I don't think we should change the format of the AWS, having double elim does give everyone a second life and a chance to carry on if you get ripped apart in the first fight. I also would not object to an earlier start depending on how far I had to travel.

I have to agree with Chris with the length of the tournament potentially someone at their first AWS with one robot may only get 3 fights. If it had run quicker there would have been time for other fights at the end.

It may be possible to take all the robots that went out in the early stages and put them into a plate tournament that could be run in a seperate arena. This may give beginers more fights but would be confusing if people had robots in both events.

I think the key to smooth tunning must be visability of who is fighting and when so there is less waiting for people to get ready. Unfortunatly I was running 3 spinners and a pneumatic robot, all of which required charging between rounds..
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Re: AWS 40

Post by joey_picus »

If we had two arenas we could quite easily move the main AWS all into one arena when it got out of the group stages and there were less than 20 robots left, and then have the extra competitions running in the other arena possibly only for those who were knocked out? That might be worth considering - I like the idea of a 'plate' competition too.

The general theme that's coming out though is one of having better communication of whose fights are next - would it be too hard to have an extension coded to either AntLog or other popular tournament systems which showed this? in a separate window that could be projected onto a wall? (author time permitting obviously :))

EDIT: I know what happens with AntLog is the OO (.o) spreadsheet can be projected up onto the wall, but that only shows the current group - when you start getting near the end of groups or skipping between them towards the end of the group stage, that might not be sufficient notice...
Last edited by joey_picus on Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AWS 40

Post by ajw »

Thanks to Will, everyone who helped organise and Reading University for another super day! I thought the organisation throughout the day was excellent especially considering the number of entries. Great job on the arena as well Will, i thought it was a good size and the extra walls added an extra dimension to the battles. Congratulations to Andy and Rhys on their victories; both very well deserved. Also a big thank you to Jim for giving me a battery plug to get Spyro running again. I thought i'd brought everything but the kitchen sink but obviously not!

I think the format can still easily accomodate the current number of entries we are seeing, but would echo the thoughts of perhaps starting the fleas earlier and having some way of displaying the upcoming battles to allow time to prepare. The double arena would save some time, but I'm not sure how much, providing the above changes were implemented, and i doubt there would be many takers to build two identical arenas.

It was great to see everyone again and I look forward to the next.
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