Dominance of pushers at AWS46

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Remote-Controlled Dave
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Re: Dominance of pushers at AWS46

Post by Remote-Controlled Dave » Thu Apr 02, 2015 9:22 am

Obviously with the effort it takes us, me and Gemma are limited to three AWSs a year, but I think the principles of a "test event" is a cool idea. Some of this stuff will work and others won't and it'll be good to experiment. Having said that I think people also need to be open to a different kind of AWS every so often. We've become very rigid in what one has to include when really they are very open to change.
For example, we could have am event with mêlées' in round one. Doesn't mean the next one has to follow suit. Might keep us all on our toes and give someone else a chance to win. (Not saying I like the mêlée idea, just using it as an example).
My point is if we have a completely different AWS and people prefer the old formula, then the next event can revert back to it, but there is a big difference between running an official competition and running a competition to a formula.
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playzooki
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Re: Dominance of pushers at AWS46

Post by playzooki » Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:36 pm

I would go to your event if i could make it.

Hogi
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Re: Dominance of pushers at AWS46

Post by Hogi » Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:41 pm

I think maybe a bigger arena could help limit the "dominance of pushers" although I don't think trying to limit the effectiveness of pushers is fair. I am all for encouraging more varied and innovative designs but I don't see why some people are targetting pushers simply because they're doing well at the moment. not every fight that a pusher fights in is won by the pusher. Hogi gets wrecked by spinners and surrendered almost as much as it gets pushed off the arena and the reason stanley wins if because it is incredably well built taking into account almost battle scenario that could possibly take place and also because Alex is such an awesome driver. also, innovative designs have done well. chomp won AWS43 in a 50% drop off arena and that's probably the most innovative robot i've ever seen. what i'm trying to say is i agree with Dave. if you want to encourage more innovation, be the leader of the innovation you want to see rather than changing the rules so that it becomes harder for basic designs to win fights.

that said though i would like to see more variation in arenas . i think maybe an arena with two dropoff sections at corners diagonal to each other and low wall along the walled part of what was previously the drop off sides with the other two sides fully enclosed might be the most balanced. would mean a robot would have to have a good amount of control over it's oponent in order to push them out but they could do so if they're design and driving skills were good enough. it would mean spinners wouldn't have to worry so much about spinning themselves out and flippers could use the low wall along what was previously the drop off sides to get an opponent over and out. something for everyone.
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MikeNCR
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Re: Dominance of pushers at AWS46

Post by MikeNCR » Mon May 11, 2015 2:01 am

Saw a question pop up about US events-

Yes, many of the US events run a 2 minute time limit for 150g-3lb robots.

No, I don't think that the match length is necessarily the big time sink at most events. It's been a while since I've been able to watch an AWS live stream since I'm in the US, but I can speak to the events over here- Even at the most smoothly run events it's not typically the fights that are the time sink, usually it's the period between fights that eats up huge chunks of time, be it people not knowing they're up, bots being fixed, or bots "putting the cover on" you tend to see most of the lost time there.

On the subject of arena design, I think some of the Atlanta area arenas have found a nice balance when it comes to not overly biasing toward one design or another.

This is the box used in Chattanooga, TN:
Image

This is the Dragon Con Robot Battles box:
Image

This is my box:
Image

The limited but still usable pushout areas give non-destructive bots a KO option, but the limited area means it takes some degree of skill or luck to get the other bot to them. The limited area also means you've got a lot less pinball effect knockouts after a spinner has hit something.

The variety of winners of the 1lb class in the Dragon Con box speaks to the balance: 2014-massive horizontal spinner, 2013-small diameter vertical spinner, 2012- Front hinged flipper. Prior to that, my arena was the Robot Battles box (I recently adopted and refurbished the arena) and the winner in 2011 was a fast 4wd pusher.

Remote-Controlled Dave
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Re: Dominance of pushers at AWS46

Post by Remote-Controlled Dave » Mon May 11, 2015 9:46 am

I love these arenas. Would be good to get one built for our events like that. Anyone want to crowdfund one?
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Rapidrory
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Re: Dominance of pushers at AWS46

Post by Rapidrory » Mon May 11, 2015 9:49 am

I'd be up for that, though we'd need to work out and agree on the design first..
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haz
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Re: Dominance of pushers at AWS46

Post by haz » Mon May 11, 2015 10:15 am

I'd pay at least one money to see a legit arena like these.

Remote-Controlled Dave
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Re: Dominance of pushers at AWS46

Post by Remote-Controlled Dave » Mon May 11, 2015 10:20 am

Mike's one at the bottom seems most in keeping with an AWS as well as needing a bit less extra fabrication, which is always good.
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EpicentrE
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Re: Dominance of pushers at AWS46

Post by EpicentrE » Mon May 11, 2015 10:33 am

Andy and I are looking at making modifications to our arena to make it more similar to these kinds of designs, at least in terms of amount of pits/drop-off area. I need to discuss with him how and when we want to do it but he's a hard man to get hold of :P.

While I would also be totally supportive of a new crowdfunded arena, there's a lot of considerations to make not only in the design of it, but in terms of storage and transport.
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Rapidrory
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Re: Dominance of pushers at AWS46

Post by Rapidrory » Mon May 11, 2015 11:10 am

It would likely only really work if one person built, stored and transported the arena as if it was their own, but the money to build it was provided by the community. Having looked into building one, the cost appeared to be around £200-£300 for a decent sized arena, most of which is spent on the polycarbonate (those who have actually built an arena I'm sure can give a more accurate estimate). That seems a fairly manageable amount to crowd source..
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