Unstick and postponement rules

A discussion forum for proposed changes to the AWS rules (2014)

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Craig_Anto3
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Unstick and postponement rules

Postby Craig_Anto3 » Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:20 pm

Hi there

I would like to propose we adopt the american system of postponement of a fight and an unstick request rule.

Unstick - Each robot gets one unstick request per fight, so if a robot like Randar did, gets stuck in the wall the driver can request an unstick and both robots go back the their squares, its one and one only per fight you get stuck again, tough.

Postponement - A driver gets one request to postpone a fight per competition per robot. This would allow less getting to the arena and needing to go away and come back. I dont remember their being more than one incident of this at AWS45 but I would like to see a rule put in writing.

As I said these are the american rules, I do think they would work well for us too.
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Shakey
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Re: Unstick and postponement rules

Postby Shakey » Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:27 pm

I also request a rule where if I am stacked against the side I get one unstack per fight. it's bonkers we let the arena have any influence on a fight!

Also one unpit per fight!

In all seriousness this event is so rare to occur that I don't think it's a rule we need. What if it was in the floor? If HSOD jammed its disc into the floor or wall that was a risk of my disc design and I have to accept that I am stuck due to my own weapon, not the arena, my weapon.
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Craig_Anto3
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Re: Unstick and postponement rules

Postby Craig_Anto3 » Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:58 pm

there's a difference between being stacked and being stuck, being stuck is to be impaled on the wall or wedged underneath the wall, thus the arena is preventing you from competing, if you get stacked or pitted that's usual because your opponent has bested you.
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Re: Unstick and postponement rules

Postby EpicentrE » Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:18 pm

I agree with Craig, but at the same time I can certainly see situations where it would be borderline between stacking and being stuck. Then again, that's what judges are for I suppose.
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Re: Unstick and postponement rules

Postby Andrew_Hibberd » Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:22 pm

I like the idea of one unstick but its going to be very difficult to judge.

I also think the arena should play a role in the fight, there is nothing that says the arena surface has to be painted wood. We could have a difficult terrain area made of spikes or sand.
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Re: Unstick and postponement rules

Postby razerdave » Thu Nov 06, 2014 9:00 pm

I'm in two minds about the unstick rule, because sometimes it can be a genuine mishap, but other times, like Randar, it happened because the opponent did it intentionally.

I'm willing to go with majority on this, because it shouldn't come into effect that often.

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Re: Unstick and postponement rules

Postby Remote-Controlled Dave » Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:19 pm

My opinion is its too difficult to judge to implement. There was one fight in the AWS where I was driving half of Salt and Pepper and I got stuck on the arena floor for an unknown reason. It was only after I was counted out and the fight was stopped that we saw it had become jammed on its own tyre, but there was no way of knowing that mid battle. I would say the current rule of a countdown if you get stuck so bad you cant move is the easiest to implement - whatever the cause, you're counted down. Then no one can object.
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Re: Unstick and postponement rules

Postby peterwaller » Fri Nov 07, 2014 8:20 am

I think we should leave the rules as they are.
The only time we have any discord or arguments are when fine judgement calls are required and this would make things much more difficult.
Most arena's are reasonably flat so most times people get stuck is around the edges or walls.
It is up to the driver to avoid these area's if they think there is a danger of getting stuck and if they are forced there by the opponent that should count just like pushing them out of the arena.

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Re: Unstick and postponement rules

Postby Hogi » Sat Nov 08, 2014 7:55 am

i think we should leave the rules as they are.

. a robot must be ready to fight within 5 minutes of being called.

. a robot that is imoblised will have 10 seconds to demonstrate that controlled motion has been restored, if it fails to do so it has lost.

i think these rules are adequate in all circumstances. if a robot gets stuck on a wall or jammed by a tyre then it's because either that robot made that happen or the opponent that made that happen. both causes are valid outcomes so i don't think we should be giving second chances when the outcome of a fight is already clear. we have not had any problems with these rules in the time i have been competing and implementing the new rules proposed looks like it would make some situations very difficult to judge which could cause some bad feeling between roboteers. i also think that implementing this rule would only really benefit spinners and therefore not many people would gain much out of this. i ANTicipate that a point may be raised about robots with acetate scoops getting stuck in walls as i have done on a couple of occasions. to counter this point, i think the power of most antweights nowadays is usually enough to free the acetate from the wall. i have only been counted out on one occasion by getting stuck in the wall and that was because my robot didn't have enough grip to pull itself free which i realise was my fault and the fault of my robot therefore it was a fair outcome.

as for postponement, i don't think limiting people to one request of postponement would benefit anyone really and it would certainly have many negative effects and i think we're all sportsmanly enough to allow our opponents a little time to get their robot into fighting shape before combat commences. the five minute time limit expressed in the current version of the rules is there to prevent situations where we end up waiting hours for a robot to be ready. it also gives all robots an equal chance to get into the arena in a combat worthy state.

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Occashokka
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Re: Unstick and postponement rules

Postby Occashokka » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:04 pm

If the unstick rule was applied how would it work for a cluster- 1 life for the team or 1 life for each botlet?
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Re: Unstick and postponement rules

Postby Hogi » Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:38 am

that's deffinitely a good point. i would say per complete cluster as a clusterbot is one robot that consists of more than one part.
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