Arena

Discuss your 1.4kg monsters here

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Bigconkers
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Arena

Post by Bigconkers » Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:57 pm

The Beetleweight arena is taking more of a better shape now with cut polycarb and bolted together instead of just gaffa taped. Not sure how to post a picture on here so a link will have to do for now.
http://bigconkers.com/projects/big-conk ... ghterhouse

haz
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Re: Arena

Post by haz » Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:43 pm

Just letting people know that the new arena has been all cut and assembled and has just been dropped off to power coat. Expect pictures when it's done. I'm really exited about this it's going to look amazing when finished.
Cheers, Haz

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EpicentrE
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Re: Arena

Post by EpicentrE » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:46 pm

Does it not have pits?
Scott Fyfe-Jamieson, Captain of Epic Robotics. Champion of AWS38/41/42.
http://www.epicrobotics.co.uk

haz
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Re: Arena

Post by haz » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:56 pm

No Pits, and at present no hazards either although there were some talks of that for the future. Maybe possibly.
Driving skill and good fights are trying to be encouraged with a points scoring system (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCIhLGal ... zxjyaAWF1A) which should create a more level field and make it a bit different. Ideally this will stop one design of robot becoming dominant over others.

Are you at all interested in Beetleweights? :)

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EpicentrE
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Re: Arena

Post by EpicentrE » Thu Oct 31, 2013 12:43 am

No hazards is fine; I never thought they were a good idea in the first place. But I'm always concerned when it comes to arenas with absolutely no pits or drop-offs, and I know I've had this conversation with other roboteers before. I believe, in a fight between a spinner and a non-spinner, assuming that the machines are equally well made (i.e. do not fail because of a few impacts), the only way for the non-spinner to win is to have armor thick enough to withstand attack from every angle for a whole 3 minutes, and I believe that stymies innovation.

That's just talking about one fight; what about an entire competition? How can any but the absolute most heavily-armoured machines hope to go a whole tournament, facing multiple spinners for up to three minutes each, and still be in a good fighting condition at the end of it?

What that leads to, at least in my experience, is two distinct dominant classes of machines; incredibly powerful, almost uncontrollable spinners (because why does it matter if you fly all over the place after scoring a hit if there's no drop-off?), and very heavily-armoured pushers designed just to take the beating while ramming the opponent around for three minutes. Neither of these designs appeal to me.

Now that's not to say I think there should always be huge pits or drop-offs; to the contrary, even mine and Andy's arena with the extra walls attached still has too much pit space in my opinion, but I believe it leads to a lot more types of robots being successful, and also more emphasis driver skill over engineering skill.

In antweights, I've seen cardboard-and-duct-tape robots beat spinners because of good strategy and driving. There is no way that could ever happen in an arena with no pits or drop-offs, and that's also part of my issue; anything that raises the barrier to entry or reduces your options can only be bad for the competition long-term. I know many non-antweight roboteers view ants as a 'beginner' class; this is something I will contest fiercely, however part of that view comes from that the class puts far more emphasis on robot design and driver skill rather than engineering skill (or how much money you can pour into the construction).

Now we're all different and I know there's some roboteers who'd like every fight to just be a sealed box with 2 spinners who hit each other until one stops working, but I certainly prefer the approach that encourages variety, experimentation, and isn't too punishing to people without engineering skills or the resources for expensive materials.

I'm not particularly interested in beetles for the same reason I'm not particularly interested in feathers; apart from bigger bangs, I don't see what they can do that an antweight can't, although you're welcome to try to change my mind. So maybe, given that, my opinion is moot. Sorry for the wall of text ;).
Scott Fyfe-Jamieson, Captain of Epic Robotics. Champion of AWS38/41/42.
http://www.epicrobotics.co.uk

haz
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Re: Arena

Post by haz » Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:32 am

No need to be sorry for the wall of text, I like having something to read :)

There were some concerns that it would just turn into an uberspinner vs brick which, I think we can all agree nobody wants. The old attitude to this was have an active weapon rule. This didn't really address the problem and basically cut out newbies and anyone who couldn't afford more than a wedge. We are just encouraging weapons, but won't turn anyone away if they turn up with a simple box. So far we have had a surprising variety of robots, almost one of every type, axes, lifters, flippers, vertical and horizontal spinners and a super powerful wedge. I understand this doesn't really address your point as over time it will get refined and people will build what wins (as with most classes, not saying that is a bad thing) With regards to the cardboard robots, well yes a cardboard beetle doesn't have the same chances a cardboard antweight would. But I would say the equivalent (say, chopping boards and some standard hacked servos or the like) at BW level if well driven, could beat the most over engineered uberspinner.

Antweights are not a beginner class, they are however a very good class to begin in I would say. Fairly cheap costs, a very well structured competition and the most likeable and welcoming community make it so. All of us here like the challenge of what we can fit into 4" and 150g, quite a lot of them pack punches that are incredible given their size. Similarly I think people like the challenge of seeing what they can fit into the beetles, namely "can I shove the power of a featherweight into something a fraction of the size and weight" (whether or not this is a good idea is an afterthought :P )

Beetles have a chance I think, it would be nice to see some of the antweight people building something with a bit more meat, clout and of course bigger bangs. It would also be good to see some of the more feather or heavy oriented people giving smaller weight classes a chance.

Even if you have no interest in this, I still appreciate the input. You are more than welcome to hit me up on Skype sometime and we can discuss it further. That is an open invitation for ideas, comments or criticisms by anyone else BTW. I know I probably haven't put on a great show of myself here, countering points in a haphazard manner basically only saying "well I think something different"

This seems to come out of my mouth quite a lot, but I think its going to be a case of seeing how we go for now. If the competition is poor or has faults that can be rectified by new rulings or the addition of new things changes will be made.
Thanks, Harry.

haz
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Re: Arena

Post by haz » Wed Nov 27, 2013 2:21 pm

Image

Got the slaughterhouse trophy :) Its absolutely perfect!

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