Walkers and shufflers

[Remote-Controlled Dave]

Reading Pete's post on the commitee about walkers, I think it was 8T88 he was referring to about not technically being a walker. I'd like to point out that it could "walk" with a non-linear motion, like a "goose-step" but it was easier to drive the way I did at AWS17, not really a walking motion. It's dead now, so not really an issue, but this ambiguity needs to be discussed I think.
Also, the use of servo-horns as legs is specifically mentioned in the rules, am I still ok with this as its what Meat Machine runs on in ant mode.
I'd also like to point out to Pete that no one has EVER made a true "walker" in our antweight competition yet, they have all been shufflers as they use rotary devices (cams ect) to produce movement. A true walker would only use linear methods, such as pistons or linear actuators, hence the difference between shufflers and walkers, and I dont believe we'll be seeing an ant like that for a while...

[Rhys]

I was thinking more about AntTrap, but I'm sure there's other who've used this method. Putting a rod on the servo output shouldn't count as a walker. These kinds of ants are just normal ants with anything but round wheels. I think these should be banned, and I think Pete is right to bring this up. It's giving an outrageous advantage to people, just because they don't fit wheels to their robot. The extra weight for a walker is there to compensate for the extra bits needed in a walker machanism, not to give an extra 75g to people who need it.

I'd also like to point out to Pete that no one has EVER made a true "walker" in our antweight competition yet, they have all been shufflers as they use rotary devices (cams ect) to produce movement.

That's not entirely true. Although most anweight walkers have used rotarty motion (servos, motors) to drive the walker, they have used this motion, and converted it into linear motion, unlike the robots Pete is talking about. The walker systems used on Chimera, Mutant etc all have a walking system that doesn't rely on circular motion for their legs. This should really be what qualifies your robot to be a walker. If you can put some wheels on your ant and it works as a roller, then it is not really walker, just an ant with square wheels.

[peterwaller]

I agree that most ants are shuffle bots but I think Oliver has built true walker in the past. The whole point is that if you allow a design where the feet perform a circular movement around the axis of the drive all you need to do is cut slots across you wheel and call it a walker.

[Andrew_Hibberd]

A servo horn with 8 pins is not much different to a wheel. The legs i am using on kwijebo now are like chimera, and doesn't even need gears.

[Remote-Controlled Dave]

Do you really reakon 8T88 and AntTrap had ANY advantage what-so-ever when competing? 8T88 was a novelty robot anyway, didnt for the life of me reakon it would be brought under so much scrutiny.

I have 1 (maybe 2) shufflers coming to the event on saturday, both using 2 point servo horns for legs like Meat did last time, and that caused no problems. The horns are at points where they do not touch the ground sometimes, they are not fully on the ground like an 8-point would be. Am I ok to run these because I've built them now.

[Raizor]

Ben Cambery (spelling) from team fluffy has built almost exclussively walkers and one of his bots (I cannot remenber its name) was built from a pot noodle can and just used servo horns to drive it for the first version but he said that after that it was banned from use as people basically said it was just non circular wheels. I cannot find his website to quote it anymore (the domain probably expired). Do any of the older builders (by older i mean who started at like aws 3-5 kinda time) remenber this happening?

[josh]

rhys and co. dont bother arguein about ant trap it a didnt work properly and b i cant be bothered to buldt it up again after i took it appart:P

[Remote-Controlled Dave]

I have been on the Team Fluffy website and I know which bot you mean. But I entered Meat in the last event with no one bringing up any issue about it. The rules clearly state that servo horns can be used to make a shuffler, providing that they are not always on the ground (like a wheel). There are points where Meat Machine sits on the ground and has to be lifted off by the legs, this is still allowed isnt it?

[Cavecrusher]

but since shufflers arn't real walkers they should not get the weight advantage

[Simon Windisch]

For clarification, to quote from http://www.antweight.co.uk/rules.htm

Shufflebot - A robot that uses legs operated by means of rotary motive force. For example, using the ends of servos arms directly as legs.

2b. Robots motivated by non-rotary motion (i.e. walkers, shuffle-bots) are limited to 0.225kg (225g)

Simon