Melees

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Hogi
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Re: Melees

Post by Hogi » Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:32 pm

i think the ability to make deals to gang up is very unfair. we'd end up with battle outcomes determined by who your most friendly with and which robots work well together rather than who has the best driver and the best robot. that just doesn't seem right to me. i deffinitely wouldn't get much feeling of achievement if i won a fight by ganging up with another robot.
Daniel Jackson.

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Many antweights

Super antweights: territorial.

Fleaweights: fleadom fighter, gaztons.

Featherweights: hectic (under construction)

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Re: Melees

Post by Remote-Controlled Dave » Wed Oct 21, 2015 2:40 pm

I ran one of my AWSs how Rory suggested before. First round 1on1, winners went through. Then losers when in go 4 melees with only the winners progressing. Then 1on1 again (which left us with 3), then another losers melee to get a 4th, then simple from there. Much less robots back then of course but a perfectly viable way of running a tournament.

Does anyone know what format MMM use in Germany? They always have Antweight melees.
Die Gracefully Robotics
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razerdave
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Re: Melees

Post by razerdave » Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:39 am

In MMM they do it on a points system, 4 robots normally, points going up 1-4. If there are robots in the same points at the end they have a fight between the top scorers, either melee or 1v1 depending on the outcome.

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Re: Melees

Post by EpicentrE » Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:30 pm

Sorry to butt in, but the system used at the Featherweight champs is horrendously unfair and, overall, terrible. I honestly couldn't believe the prestige placed on an event with such a poor ruleset. In some ways it made me want to build a feather less.

So is having single elimination with a losers melee after each round, as one robot could lose every single one on one fight, but win the melees, and do better than another robot that lost twice in a row and was therefore out.

As I'm not competing in the near future my opinion is probably moot, but for me, fair = fun. Unfair = not fun. I define the most fair system as either full double elimination (what we use now), or a group-based league system with the top two from each group feeding into a double or single elimination bracket (what many eSports use, but would be too time consuming with current AWS numbers).
Scott Fyfe-Jamieson, Captain of Epic Robotics. Champion of AWS38/41/42.
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Hogi
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Re: Melees

Post by Hogi » Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:51 pm

i agree with what Scott said. fair=fun. not fair=not fun.
Daniel Jackson.

Team Hectic.

Many antweights

Super antweights: territorial.

Fleaweights: fleadom fighter, gaztons.

Featherweights: hectic (under construction)

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Re: Melees

Post by EpicentrE » Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:34 pm

If I may be more constructive for a second;

It seems to me there is no one tournament format that will adequately fit the desires of both people who's main enjoyment comes from fair, balanced competition, and people who's main enjoyment comes through other means (for example, diversity, having as many fights as possible, seeing different machines win often, etc.)

So let me present a radical concept for a second - and let me clarify that I'm not necessarily suggesting that we do this, I'm just throwing it out there as an alternative to the options presented thus far:

We hold AWS events with the same regularity, but they now alternate between two different events. The AWS becomes the main "tournament" on the circuit. It's rule set, arena, and tournament system are designed and decided by the people for whom competition is the most important aspect to be as fair and as balanced as is possible. The purpose of this event is to find the "best" fighting robot.

The other half of what was the AWS transforms into a new event. This event is designed to give people as many fights, and as much to do, as possible. There is a combat element, but it's just one of many events, maybe with restrictions such as only one robot per team, single elimination, melees etc. It is understood that this is not the main spectacle of this event, and so may not be as fair or as balanced as the competition at the AWS. Alongside this - and possibly with multiple things running concurrently - are things like melees, tag teams, obstacle courses, races, football, etc. With so much going on, most people in attendance should have something to take part in for a large portion of the day, and all the various different events will produce winners from a whole host of different and interesting robots throughout the day.

I'd be interested to hear thoughts regarding this.

Thoughts?
Scott Fyfe-Jamieson, Captain of Epic Robotics. Champion of AWS38/41/42.
http://www.epicrobotics.co.uk

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joey_picus
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Re: Melees

Post by joey_picus » Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:38 pm

I think what we really need is the Reading Robot Club back :( to elaborate slightly, I'd be all for more and a greater diversity of events, as I've said multiple times - the Ant Freeze was brilliant and I wish I'd been able to go to the previous ones, and I think we need to get back to having at least three and preferably more events a year that aren't so competition focused, where you can play football, pinball, speedway, gauntlet, and other events (sometimes even with antweights!) and just have a lot of robot based fun.

I'd be up for organising something of that sort on an annual basis, or at least helping with a venue (Dave, if you're reading, I'll happily pay for the Brize Norton scout hut if that helps, that way everyone won't have to come up to Lancashire!)
Joey McConnell-Farber - Team Picus Telerobotics - http://picus.org.uk/ - @joey_picus
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Re: Melees

Post by razerdave » Wed Nov 04, 2015 6:12 pm

I'd love to host another event at some point, I'll discuss that in detail with you another time Joey.

Scott: Not sure I understand your comment about the FW champs being unfair? The way I see it every robot gets 4 fights and the robots that have had the best consistent performance move on.

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Re: Melees

Post by Remote-Controlled Dave » Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:34 pm

Simply having more events doesn't work for us. We sometimes struggle to make 3 a year, let alone more. Scott, I understand you said have the events the same frequency (so still three a year) and to alternate between the types, but getting to an event costs us hundreds of pounds and I'd be less enthusiastic to go shelling out just for a fun and games event. I'd rather just have a more fun/different format to an AWS, even just occasionally, but people don't seem to want that. There's this stubbornness to run EITHER an AWS OR a "fun one" when we could just combine the two. But there we go, I'm obviously in the minority.
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Re: Melees

Post by razerdave » Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:30 pm

I'd like to see the experiment done just to see how it's taken in practice. If it didn't work that well, we go back to normal format at the next one.

The point of me doing ATC's or Insecticide (all insect weight classes) is just because I don't fancy doing an AWS; I want to do something different without that name hanging over it.

Would be nice to do more games and stuff at AWS's, I'll ask Dan if he'd be cool with me bringing the football table :).

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