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Andrew_Hibberd
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Discussion

Post by Andrew_Hibberd » Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:09 pm

Talking to Simon in the car on the way to and from the event the following topics where discussed. Please refer to which topic in future posts to make it easier to read. Please discuss....... if anyone can think of any other points to add please give them a number so they can be refered to etc

Supposed to be a friendly discussion:D



1. Fight between Duff-Lower

AWS 14, there was an unclear decision. Duff was a spinner and lower a crusher. Duff attacked lower and removed a wheel, however flipped upside down. During the count down for Lower, Duff spun up to try and self right and went out of the arena. Lower was given the victory.

There are a few sides to this argument. Should the count down for a robot continue even if the other robot drove off the arena? Therefore the imobolised robot would loose, because the robot that drove off would loose.

2. Pusher

This is linked in with the spinner section as well. It has been mentioned that the american's use the robot that initiated the attack wins. However if for instance SUB was under another robot and pushed them so they both fall off. Would it be the first to hit the ground looses as SUB could hit the floor first, even though they pushed the other one out. Could this be punished as bad driving so the other robot wins?

3. Spinners

In a spinner fight atm the robot that goes out first is deamed to have lost.

However in a pusher fight if a robot is pushing another quickly towards the edge and the one being pushed just moves and the aggresser falls off, then the advantage is with the defender. So if a spinner was to attack another robot, is it not the defender that has priority or the spinner itself?

4. Clusters

There was a little confusion of the rules for clusters. As i understand the rules are 50% by weight, however i was informed at aws20 that is was all parts of the cluster? The way i understand the rules if both halves weighed the same then both would have to be removed. However if one was heavier then if this was knocked out the fight has been lost.

5. Robot out?

Another thing discussed is when is a robot out. I believe that a robot should be out when any attached part touches the floor of the pit.
Simon mentioned possible discussion for hitting the battlebox counting as being out of the fight. So who would win if both robots flew arround the arena a few times? If too close to call then replay the fight.

6. Judges

It would make judging more fair if the judges were called before the fight as in the aws rules.
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Marco Roberts
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Re: Discussion

Post by Marco Roberts » Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:19 am

1. Fight between Duff-Lower

Well we really need to compile a rule for robots which have a wheel ripped of. Acording to the rules its still in the fight as it has mobility. The rules only mensions robots unable to self right.
Possibly the addition of "A robot unable to continue combat as decided by a judge" after 10 seconds.
In that fight however I would think that both would have lost as they wouldnt be able to continue fighting if duff had just stayed imobolised. Thats were a judge should just step in and state that if the match is replayed lower would be unable to continue fighting.

2. Pusher

This is a very interesting debate. I had a little muck around fight with sub a few times. And it had me on its top but just before I had a chance to sucsesfully drive straight over it, it fell of the arena with me. I however was on its rear side and if anything sub was the first to go off.
I am sure if one robot was directly on top of another and the one under drives off then sure there is NOT a clear winner.
My suggestion to fix this is have the judges decided if it was a clear win or not. If it was not a clear win then the match gets replayed.

3. Spinners

I dont understand the question? Surely if your fighting a spinner your alwase defending?

4. Clusters

Actualy I am sorry I had a mix up of these rules
It IS if 50% of the cluster is taken out. Im going to blame dave though as he said it lol. But honestly I thought it was the same but I guess it was changed without me noticing. Usually there is no reasson for me to look at any of the new rules, since its 150g and 4inch cube. Thats really the only rules i need.
Back in the day of anculpla I remember both had to be taken out.

5. Robot out?

Well for daves ant which is attached to a cord I quote
"A robot that falls off the arena has lost."
I thought this would be clear enough that if one part of his bot touched the floor that its out.
Maybe the rule could be like, if a robot touched the lower arena floor its out. But this rule could really interfere with sub.

As for robots bouncing around the arena hitting the lid, I thought that it counts as a ring out. Because if the battle box wasnt there surely its long gone.
But refering to the rules, robots that bounce around the arena and end up back in are still in. "A robot that falls off the arena has lost." Thats the only rule for a ring out

6. Judges

Well its been a while since I went to an aws and they did used to call the judges then. Maybe if we put three seats out and call judges before the match (while the unorganised get ready) so its all cleared.
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Raizor
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Re: Discussion

Post by Raizor » Sun Jun 25, 2006 11:55 am

Marco Roberts wrote: 4. Clusters

Actualy I am sorry I had a mix up of these rules
It IS if 50% of the cluster is taken out. Im going to blame dave though as he said it lol. But honestly I thought it was the same but I guess it was changed without me noticing. Usually there is no reasson for me to look at any of the new rules, since its 150g and 4inch cube. Thats really the only rules i need.
Back in the day of anculpla I remember both had to be taken out.
Hi

Long time no post (i am sure you all thought you were finally rid of me :D )

Back when I was writing the rules (i did one version just after AWS 10) we added parts about clusters. Basically it was decided then that the rule was "More than 50% by weight" So effectively if you had 2 parts both weighing exactly 75g then you had to have both parts removed. Its been a while since i read the rules but i dont think things have changed much since then.

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Remote-Controlled Dave
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Post by Remote-Controlled Dave » Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:55 pm

We discussed a lot of this in the comittee. Basically, the first robot to leave the arena surface is the loser (even if it bounces off a wall and back into the arena from now on). Thinks that what we decided anyway.
Regarding clusters, this was discussed before when I brought it up. Bascially, you have to knock out a whole clusterbot to eliminate it. The 50% weight rule gets too complicated if you have, say, a 3 or 4 way clusterbot, and also, theres no real reason to put yet another limitation on a cluster when they already have to weigh less and, therefore, are usually less powerful ect.
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Marco Roberts
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Post by Marco Roberts » Sun Jun 25, 2006 8:09 pm

ahhh yeah its more then 50%
So that means normal fleas with each cluster weighing exactly 75g then if one goes then the other has to go to lose.
But in the case of yesterday when daves flea was taken out and psycho flea stayed on we should of lost as psycho flea was the lighter of the two.
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Simon Windisch
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Post by Simon Windisch » Sun Jun 25, 2006 10:03 pm

The leaving the arena rule is more than just jumping up and coming down again, it's leaving the vertical bounds of the edge of the arena, so bouncing against the sides of the battle box is leaving the arena, and hitting the top is still within the vertical bounds. At least, I thought that's what we discussed.

Simon

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