How do, folks.

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Derek Dudge
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:32 pm

How do, folks.

Post by Derek Dudge »

Hi folks of rw101.

Obligatory intro bit, new here, very green indeed. Used to love robot wars back in’t day (Jeremy Clarkson in a trenchcoat haha) and recently my housemate made me aware of the reboot and watched all that in the past few weeks and it's still great. One of the best shows under BBC banner in years. Also, so impressed with how sophisticated some of the machines are now. Crazy stuff.

Anyways. As many have probably come here and stated before - always thought building one would be awesome but hit that first tall hurdle of “don't really know a damn thing about RC or electronics”.

Then i see some stuff on reddit about the antweight fights and start reading and watching YouTube stuff about that and see that the really technical parts of the process I would likely fall down at can be conquered with things like that nano kit. (very cool by the way that folks are doing things like that to make this stuff less of a steep learning curve)

Now I'm thinking, hey maybe I could. And I need a new… something for the new year to be keeping busy on. And my reading thus far has made me realise it doesn't have to be ludicrously expensive to have a go.

So… yeah. Here goes. It's gonna be low tech, bodge job city. I don't have much in the way of tools, the design will be pen scribbles and cardboard mock up rather than CAD models and 3d printing. I'll likely be going with plastic I can cut and fold and drill without power tools etc.

The plan thus far.

Find out when the nano kits are available again from the guys here that do them.

Get the rest of the parts (I'll do this bit in proper detail after I find out when the robot brain kit is available). I know i will need to get a transmitter handset, battery & battery safety stuff, polycarbonate sheets, probably a couple of hand tools, a bunch of small nuts and bolts etc. I have seen the recommended parts to go with the nano kit (yall really made this seem a lot easier)

Meanwhile I can design the thing! I don't want to get too far ahead of myself on day 1 but I got some ideas. I like the idea of a squat little 4wd ant with just a heavy duty (well heavier duty than back and bottom at least) frontal armour to be a push/ram bot. I'd like to try a servo part, although i don't think I'll do flipper weapon, maybe a self righter in the top would be a reasonable goal? Will the nano kit, battery, 4x motor and wheels plus a servo mechanism all fit in 150 grams and leave any weight for armour? Many of the bots I've looked at on here are 2 wheels but I think I prefer the look of 4. I guess the weight of it all is the big factor though.

Another option would be bigger wheels that clear the body top and bottom for the ability to drive upside down? I guess that would be plan b. I like the first idea more, because it would allow more leeway in making a mean looking front facing that also partially protects the front wheels? Also it would feel like a bit of a cop out to not try make something that moves in the thing besides wheels.

Long long long run, I suppose if all goes well, then the final part of the plan is go to an event somewhere sometime and get whatever I make smashed into a thousand pieces.

Does that all sound reasonable? I shall give many thanks in advance, because I'm sure I'll be asking a ton of questions later.

I suppose the first question is - when is it expected the nano kits will be available again? I see that the guy who makes them was in the RW Nuts team? No doubt he's a busy man. I don't need like exact dates, but just a rough idea. Weeks? In the new year? Xmas time is always disruptive to these things so I don't mind having to wait a little while.

And if you are reading, good sir, congrats on RW, that was very entertaining. The final episode was superb. Nuts and Eruption were getting my cheers, I was hoping for Carbide to get a rougher ride and you folks delivered.

All the best and many thanks!
My robots:

Third Law (antweight) - push/ram bot
Manticore (antweight) - hammer bot
Derek Dudge
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:32 pm

Re: How do, folks.

Post by Derek Dudge »

This is a terribly made quick mock up of rough shape etc I was thinking. Pardon please the crapness of the actual building. My goal was to just now be able to better think about the plan to draw for a better version.

It's slightly too big, and I gotta have a real think about how to make the slanted front facing etc in the future, because it would be awesome if the slanted face could wrap around and shield the front wheels. It's an ugly model :) But I had a bit of time to kill and will help when I come to make a more serious mock up.

Would a righting flipper for a kind of lid like that work you guys think?



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Also the aforementioned housemate who got me back into watching the TV show is interested in helping. We're both really just fans without any experience of building them, but probably two people means eventually we'll want two robots so we can practice fights.
My robots:

Third Law (antweight) - push/ram bot
Manticore (antweight) - hammer bot
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peterwaller
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Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2002 12:00 am
Location: Aylesbury Bucks
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Re: How do, folks.

Post by peterwaller »

Hi Derek and welcome.
Your approach with cardboard mock ups is as good a way as any to start to realize the problems you need to overcome to make an antweight.
The good thing about Rory's controllers is that you don't need to solder as the motors are already connected and the battery and servo if needed just plug in.
You do need to ensure you get a DSM2 transmiter to be compatible the the built in receiver.
The sloping front and wrap around certainly helps with spinners if you go through some of the antwtweight threads you will see a vast array of ways people get over the being flipped problem.
As you say making the wheels big enough to run inverted is one way although you will find that forward and back are reversed so many make the back the front when upside down see Dominant below which is also an example of sloping front with wrap around all be it with tracks rather than wheels.
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Most flippers use the flipper as the self righting mechanism sometimes with added top parts with shaping to aid the roll back as Flippant below.
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Good luck and hopefully we will see you at an event sometime soon.
Peter
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Lincoln
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:00 am
Location: Olney, Milton keynes

Re: How do, folks.

Post by Lincoln »

Firstly, welcome to the antweight robot community.
If i were you, i would download google sketchup, it's completely free! and very easy to learn. we used to use cardboard models to design robots, so trust me when i say it will make it a lot easier. It will also help you to avoid one of the first mistakes people make when building their first antweight.
nearly everyone builds their first robot to fit within a 4 inch square and forget the rule is to fit within a 4 inch cube, so take advantage of the extra length by putting it in diagonally.

Making a thing that only drives and has no other moving part is perfectly fine for a first robot and not a "cop out". it's your first robot. and personally i think going with bigger wheels so it can drive both ways up is a good idea to do, even if you do add a flipper or self righter.

for the weight, make a spreadsheet and put in the weights of the components and you can work out how much any other materials will weigh as well. then you will know if it all will fit in wight. i'm fairly sure it will.

also you should try and come to an event even if you haven't built a robot yet. you will learn so much more than can be explained through this forum from seeing everyone else's robots, and talking to all the very friendly roboteers.

i believe that the nano two kits will 'soon' be available through alex's new store, https://nutsandbots.co.uk/

good luck with your adventure into the crazy world of antweight robots!
sa5v2.1-min.png
sa5v2.1-min.png (165.65 KiB) Viewed 7542 times
(pete beat me to it while i was writing this)
Team RobotMad, home of the Smart robots, and very mean pots :)
Chris and Lincoln Barnes
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GeorgeR
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Re: How do, folks.

Post by GeorgeR »

Hi, welcome to the world of antweights!

For a first robot I would probably recommend going for either 4wd without any other weapon, or 2wd if you want to have a flipper. While a 4wd robot with a flipper/self-righter has been done many times, it adds complexity and can make things tight on the weight, so might be best left for a future build. It's certainly not a cop out to build a robot without any active weapons, the current AWS champion, Bzroink, is a 4wd pusher, and my first bot Zero is only a 2wd pusher.

To provide a different opinion, I personally don't think it's worth using cad for a first robot, assuming you aren't already familiar with it. Drawing it out on paper and cardboard models will work fine, and cad won't stop you making the design mistakes that everyones first bot has. You can always get into cad at a later date if you want or need it, but I'm currently building my 4th ant and so far have only used it for one part of one robot.
Team Zero - AWS 58 Champion!
Zero - rambot - - Axiom - axebot - - Valkyrie - drum spinner
Blueprint - rambot - - Vampire - horizontal spinner - - Particle - ???
RBMK - quad spinner gyro walker - - Duality - dual spinner gyro walker
Derek Dudge
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:32 pm

Re: How do, folks.

Post by Derek Dudge »

Cheers for the welcome!

RE - model vs CAD I can get the sketch up program and have a look - but - probably I will do another cardboard mock at some point first. Mainly as it's seems useful to be practicing drawing the net to fold up for chassis, working out where to bolt and where needs tabs to underlap to have something to bolt to etc.

When I'm a little bit more 'ready' a digital model could be good for precision. But that's a whole extra thing to teach myself, so I'll see how it goes with the cardboard first.

Also, hmmm, cop out was probably the wrong words for what i meant about not wanting to just go with wheels for moving parts. I totally hear you that a simple push bot can be an damn effective design. My thinking was more - I'll have to experiment a bit more. I saw a thread here about linking up the flippers and best angles etc. I understood some/most of it, but I'd be lying if I said I'd be confident doing a flipping weapon first time around.

Hence my self righter idea. Because it's a chance to try using a servo and getting to have a proper look at how they move etc, but allows for a plan B. I noticed the servo listed as recommended on the nano kit datasheet is quite a big chunk of the weight allowance though, 30 something grams IIRC, so probably I'll save final decision until I've done a more complete list of the other parts and their weights.

Cheers again guys.


Ooh and p.s yeah i saw already that robots can go in the cube on a diagonal. I have yet to figure it out precisely, but I am guessing it basically boils down to a extra couple of centimetres on one dimension provided that the whole thing isn't too tall? I can see how, without a handy hollow cube to use, the CAD would help here.
My robots:

Third Law (antweight) - push/ram bot
Manticore (antweight) - hammer bot
Derek Dudge
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:32 pm

Re: How do, folks.

Post by Derek Dudge »

Hi again :)

two new questions.

Does anyone know the weight of the 4wd version of the nanotwo kit? the datasheet says total weight is 30g, but I suspect this is referring to the 2wd version?

There are two servos Rory listed as recommended in the datasheet as recommended. one he says is for flippers, the other lifters. Difference being 20 quid and 21g vs a fiver and 9g. So, the cheaper lifter servo - if you read my posts above about wanting to try a self righting arm as my first servo part, which servo should I use for that? Is the lifter one going to let me down? Or is a case of you need the 21g servo for a flipper weapon, but the lifter ones are quite capable of turning 150g back over if you aren't relying on the instant kick you need with a weapon? 12g saved is a lot more armour, especially since I want 4 wheels.

Many thanks!
My robots:

Third Law (antweight) - push/ram bot
Manticore (antweight) - hammer bot
Derek Dudge
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:32 pm

Re: How do, folks.

Post by Derek Dudge »

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Last edited by Derek Dudge on Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
My robots:

Third Law (antweight) - push/ram bot
Manticore (antweight) - hammer bot
Derek Dudge
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:32 pm

Re: How do, folks.

Post by Derek Dudge »

Oki dokie - update to plan

Having spent a little while longer fiddling with cardboard chassis ideas and growing suspicious that a heavier servo and 4wd might leave me unable to armour it as much as I'd like to, I have a revised plan.

Ha, so while I would love to say it was a flash of my own inspiration, I'll come clean instead - I've been looking at lots of build diaries on here and a couple other sites and I've taken a shine to a design I've spotted on Mr Windisch's site, on an old retired bot of his.

This is the guy.

Image

It strikes me as a very nice way to be able to wrap armour around all the wheels evenly without needing much of a complicated folding amd gluing job. I like it enough to be happy to abandon my righting arm idea and just focus on making a 4wd pusher that can run upside down. I'd be using all polycarbonate armour rather than the metal, but I saw pictures of how he laid the internals out on the chassis and it looks like a great design to start up this stuff with. Simple enough to not stress me out too much but probably effective enough to not be rubbish. Probably a good level to aim for on the first try!

I would still designate one end as "front" and I'd add a shovel/scoop/whatever you want to call it to that facing. I realise I could even do it front and back and not need to worry about inverted controls upside-down, but right now I'm envisioning just a front attachment, so that this piece can be heavier duty. I'd hope that the weight saved not worrying about putting a servo in would free up enough to stick something fairly spinner proof there. This would just be aesthetic preference as much as anything else, I realise it means I'll need to practice driving with the controls inverted too.

So yeah. New plan. I ordered enough polycarbonate to have a go assembling a mock up of the chassis and armour plates while I wait for the nanokits to come on sale again.
My robots:

Third Law (antweight) - push/ram bot
Manticore (antweight) - hammer bot
Derek Dudge
Posts: 135
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:32 pm

Re: How do, folks.

Post by Derek Dudge »

Got the plastic delivered. Cut a small piece from one sheet just to see how it cuts and bends, yeah it's cool stuff huh?

I also spoke to Rory, hopefully in a few weeks/after the holidays period he'll have the parts to do me a 4wd nanotwo. I'll wait to see if that pans out before i look at alternatives, I'd rather use that kit.

In the meantime I plan on building a trial run of the chassis and armour. Did some more planning with the cube in mind, it's going to be virtually the full 4" wide, chassis 25m high (30mm wheels) and the extra length gained by going in the cube at an angle is for the front wedge/scoopy part.

Drew a few template to cut for the chassis parts and armour. I think all of it should cut from one a4 sheet. And i have ordered a selection of lengths of 2mm and 2.5mm nuts and bolts, which should cover everything I need to bolt all the armour on.

Things I'm gonna need to think about still are some sort of risers to get the wheel motors up where they're centred vertically with chassis and same amount of wheel clears the chassis top and bottom, and how best to make the ram wedge/scoop.

If it all fits in the weight, the templates I've drawn would have all front and back facing armoured to at least 3mm, sides at 1.5mm directly covering wheels and 3mm between the wheels, and 1.5mm top and bottom. It seems from what I've read this should be plenty. It's just a case now of will it all fit with the 4wd internals. I have estimated the insides will be about 75g to 80g, and i can get all the poly out of one 115g a4 sheet with quite a bit of offcut parts. So i think it's all doable. Maybe i end up needing to drill holes in the lid lol.

When the bolts come and i make a trial run of the plastic bits I'll post pics.
My robots:

Third Law (antweight) - push/ram bot
Manticore (antweight) - hammer bot
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