Discussions from the last AWS

[Remote-Controlled Dave]

After a (fairly brief) discussion in the committee section of the forum, we seem to be all agreeed on a few rule amendmants, but it would be good to hear from you guys who aren't in the committee too.
Basically the proposal is this:

1) Any robot that employs the "expanding by remote control" rule must now do so upon "activate", rather than before the battle starts. This is seen as the fairest way of doing it.

2) A team entering a clusterbot can employ anyone they like to help out with driving it, within reason. This is how its been running for a while now and has been favoured as making it an "official" ruling.

3) If a robot is drawn up against another robot of the same team in the later stages of the AWS, the owner of both robots can either choose to fight his own machine, or choose which one to put through without fighting. Again, this has happened a couple of times now, but is just being made "official".

If anyone has any comments/agreements/things to add/objections, feel free to post them below, though I'm not really looking to open up another debate, more to just inform on what's been said by the committee.

[joey_picus]

What are we doing about robots that are reduced to one wheel movement? The consensus seems on the committee forum to be not to count them out, which is the only fair way of treating them in my opinion as it's very possible to build robots that get full 'controlled' movement from one or even no wheels, and even for robots that lack 'controlled' movement to win fights against robots with all wheels working.

I can't argue with any of the other points, in fact I thought for the first one that that was technically the case already and was only put under some doubt about that at the AWS

[Shakey]

I think a robot should only be counted out if it has no ability to move at all. A spinner with one wheel can still turn and hit you, flipper can flip. If a robot truly has no controlled movement then they will end up out the arena or the battle will time out and the other robot judged the winner.

[Remote-Controlled Dave]

The moving on one wheel debate didn't reach a conclusion, as the three options all had pretty much equal votes. As this is the case, it will stay as it currently seems to be at the moment, which is that it will be judged as a countdown or to carry on the fight based on how well the robot can still move around on one wheel. Some robots (COSMOS at the last AWS, Boreworm and Divinity at the one before) could still move about the arena with controlled motion on a single wheel, so they were allowed to fight on. Anti-Depressant, at the last AWS, was stuck going in a circle, and was counted down, as it couldn't still contribute to the fight unless the opponent went near it. So it seems to depend on the situation, and will be judged accordingly.

For the record, my opinion was that it would be fairest to count out ANY robot down to one wheel, regardless of how well it could move, because this was the fairest way and not open to any debate. But only me and Peter W voted this way, with more people voting for the "judge the individual circumstances" ruling. So we will stay as it currently is, unless a more concrete decision is made in the future.

[joey_picus]

I don't know if it could be seen as the fairest way when you have robots like Aaron Knight's melty brain thing, which has controlled motion with one wheel only, or something like Tip Top which used no wheels at all for powered movement...by a very strict application of that logic they'd be counted out as soon as the fight started.

[Shakey]

What we need is to make the rule with the least amount of opinion involved. I can't remember now but there was a recent example where one robot was counted out where another wasn't.

The 'is it controlled' relies on opinion far too much to be a fair rule in the long run.
The 'only one wheel' is strict but can produce unfair situations where a robot (such as boreworm did) is still under controlled motion but counted out.
The only one i can see that doesn't have much opinion and is strict without causing unfair situation is when a robot is reduced to no motion.

Bearing in mind if it really is uncontrollable most the time the driver will say so and end the match.

[Craig_Anto3]

it should be active motion, using my robots as example, should Anto lose drive on one side that would deem it dead to me, it cant move properly, where as Scrap Mamba could lose all by 1 servo and still be 'mobile'

[BeligerAnt]

"controlled motion" is not difficult to demonstrate. We have multiple judges so that a decision can be reached.
Allowing robots with missing wheels that can only flail around in a circle to continue really doesn't constitute a "battle"!

Since we have judges, and the rules provide them with guidelines, we should allow the judges to make their decision and accept it with good grace. The rules should only be changed if the guidelines are inadequate.

If the judges do not correctly apply the current rules, then that's an entirely different problem...

[Craig_Anto3]

I agree with you Gary but you last statement is a little insulting, we all interpret the rules in various ways some vastly different from others, which is where judging is difficult. To imply judges don't imply rules properly is unfair as to one person they may be applying the rules as they see them but to another they may not be, which is why there needs to be clearly defined rules for things like this so there can be no misunderstanding

[Remote-Controlled Dave]

Clearly defined rules that are open to as little interpretation as possible are needed in all cases.

I quite like Haywire's description, it's very clear. I think it also depends on the opponent in the battle too. If a robot is down to one wheel and going around in circles, can't move very well, and the opponent backs off, then the one-wheeled one should be counted out. However, if the opponent continues to fight it, then it can still be seen as being able to contribute to the battle (and sometimes, even win).

Maybe that's the key phrase. If the robot "can still contribute to the battle" under its own power.