Metal armour rule

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Simon Windisch
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Metal armour rule

Post by Simon Windisch »

OK, I'm starting a new thread for this discussion.

To recap, the rules state
j. The maximum thickness of metal armour is 1mm or 0.040" or 18 gauge (+/- 5% tolerance) (there are no thickness limits on non-metallic armour).
and
k. Armour consisting of one continuous metal plate must not protect more than one third of the robots perimeter (welded plates will be considered as a continuous metal plate).
To recap, the argument is that some people believe that rule k should be removed from the rules.

Just out of interest, and to get further into the argument that you could roam unharmed around the arena in a machined metal shell, I calculate that a Dynamo sized (roughly 10cm wide, 13cm long and 1cm deep, and 1mm thick aluminium shell would have a volume of 30.6 cm3 and therefore a weight of 75g.

Simon
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Post by Remote-Controlled Dave »

I think I started this, after it was said that Ant Awe, Ant and Dec were technically against the rules at the last RRC, due to them being constructed from a single sheet of 1mm metal.
I personally cant see why we have this rule and was asking around to find the reason for it being there and whether the sport has changed significantly enough to remove it now.
Being constructed out of a single sheet or block of metal would obviously add strength to the robot, but it would still be within the weight and size limits set and, as most spinners seem to throw people out of the arena nowadays, rather than have the chance to tear them up, and it would still be perfectly possible to throw a 150g robot out, be it made of one sheet of metal or not.
I can't see any reason for this rule, but would love to hear about it, eepecially how it came about in the first place.
Die Gracefully Robotics
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Simon Windisch
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Post by Simon Windisch »

Just for the record, Ant Awe, Ant and Dec are made from metal that is much thinner than 1mm.

Simon

P.S. And Dave, would you also be for the removal of the 1mm limit as well?

Simon
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Post by razerdave »

I think that metal armour at 1mm thinkness can be changed, personally I think anything over 1mm would be overkill anyway, but I wouldn't be fussed if it stayed or went.

I would get rid of rule K though, I think making it out of 1 peice of metal is simpler than trying to bolt it together, same with the plastic builders, we wouldn't wanna have to bolt everything together if we didn't have to
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Post by olivers »

Rule k is to stop people making ants out of a solid bit of machined metal or by forming a bodyshell.

By having plates joined together you are introducing weak points.

How boring would it be seeing 2 all metal ants fighting. By having lots of materials and ways of joining them together makes it fun.
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Post by teamocean »

Well, seeing as I built the ants that started this, here is my view.

I only built these ants like this becuase it was the simpliest way for me to get the shapes that I wanted (BTW the aluminium is 0.5mm thick)- I have tried other ways to make ant awe but they were either too heavy or didn't work. They will probably not go to an AWS either (although if this rule changes then they might). These were made for fun and if they get to fight in a proper competition then that is a bonus. However saying that I would like to attend more antweight competitions.

If the rules stay as they are then I don't really mind because I am already working on my competition ant- Heatwave using some ideas that I got a Reading last week.

It will be interesting to see what others think of this!
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Post by peterwaller »

As much as it pains me to say it I have to agree with Oliver. If we want to build indestructable metal robot that just keep bumping into each other we might as well make featherweights :evil: . But seriously the danger of a bit of damage occuring makes the fight much more exciting. As I have stated before it is not just spinners I am still looking for a way to produce an effective axe or crusher robot that works on plastic let alone a solid machined block of metal. Of all the rules this one comes up for discussion more than any other so maybe we should have a vote on this to finally put it to bed. As it is an AWS rule I would suggest the vote should be limited to 1 per team that enter AWS events and it should be an open vote where you see who voted for what and why, rather than just click on a control where people can vote as often as they see fit.
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Post by Simon Windisch »

I'm not sure which way I would vote.

Should we keep discussing it here, and then vote at AWS 27 on Saturday 8th November?

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Post by olivers »

Sat 8th is good for me.

I have used 0.5mm aluminium in the past, to be honest 1mm polycarb is far better and takes a lot more damage. Any spinnner can easily rip through 0.5mm alu whereas polycarb takes a lot more damage.

I am all for dropping the 1mm thickness rule, if anyone wants to use thicker metal then they should be allowed too, the downside is the weight. Given the choice, mentioned above I would use polycarb.

For the rule K, I would keep it as it is.

Continue to discuss, we will talk about it during the comittee meeting at the next AWS.
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Post by Remote-Controlled Dave »

I wouldnt object to removing the thichness limit, no.
I dont see why we should limit metal and not polycarb or anything else. There's an arguement about watching 2 metal boxes fight it out which would be boring, but how is it any different to watching 2 polycarbonate boxes?
And, having said that, some of the most interesting fights I've seen have involved Dynamite and another pusher, so. I dont think its fair to limit metal and not anything else. As Oliver says, metal is heavier, harder to work with and not actually much more effective than polycarb.
Changing this rule doesnt mean everyone's going to make metal boxes either. I, for one, will not change my building style if these rules go, I just dont think we should limit anyone else.
As Will says, he built his robots out of metal because it was easiest for him and he says he'd love to bring it to more competitions, so why should we limit him when it doesn't give him any combat advantage?
Everyone has their own building style and there's always a great variety of robots at the events. I dont think this is going to change just because people can make them out of metal. In fact, if it allows robots like Ant Awe in, then it'll make it more interesting. If someone wants to make a boring metal pushing box, then thats up to them, if that's their stratergy. No-ones saying you have to just cos the rule goes, just that you could if you want to.
I think its a good idea to put it to majority vote at the AWS. Id say get all the arguements out the way on here, then just do a simple yes/no sensus at the AWS and then go by that.
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